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Hello Mark,<br>
<br>
again, comments inline.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-08-23 03:21, Mark F wrote:<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra">""" <span
style="font-size:12.8px">This means if enough
people want change (and are there to do the
tasks needed), then it's likely to happen as
well. """</span></div>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><span
style="font-size:12.8px">I guess what I'm trying
to imply is that there are (apparently) enough
people when you count all those using different
Xfce implementations. <br>
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<br>
I was referring to change within the scope of Xubuntu.<br>
<br>
In other words, if we want change in Xubuntu, there needs to be
enough people wanting the change and the assignees for the tasks
within the Xubuntu community.<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">*snip*</span>
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<span style="font-size:12.8px">I had already been
thinking about this. The topic about soliciting
user feedback ("testimonials," almost a
religious experience) for the purpose of
advocacy ("marketing") seemed to invite these
thoughts. Does Xubuntu really have to be "pure?"
Couldn't it be more things to more people
(especially if a majority are heading to Mint?).</span></div>
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<br>
I can't talk for others here, but personally I think that Xubuntu
should decide on one set of defaults and stick with it – if that's
what you mean by "being pure".<br>
<br>
This allows the Xubuntu team focus exactly on what they are doing,
and do it well.<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Soliciting
"testimonials" and having a goal to grow the
userbase is an act of pragmatics (outreach). I'm
just asking why not start from the beginning and
ask how those non-Xubuntu users were lost.
Accomodate them (especially if it's just about
democracy and catering to the largest common
denominator). <br>
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<br>
We have no data on the size of the group of people who have decided
not to use Xubuntu – in this case because of the desktop ideology.
Accommodating to that group would be a gamble, and it would mean
that we would likely disappoint a portion of our current users and
stopping doing what we are passionate about.<br>
<br>
I can see how this can make sense if your living depends on
successful marketing and the market share. Here, however, it's all
still going to be the same voluntary work even with a larger
audience.<br>
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<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">I appreciate
having the opportunity to air my thoughts
about it. I get the impression that it's not
welcome (much, subject-line changes so it's
not related to the original point I was
replying to, etc.).</span></div>
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<br>
The discussion is still welcome.<br>
<br>
The reason I changed the topic was that your first mail was more
related to new ideas on the desktop than gathering the testimonials,
which we were discussing on the original thread. Changing the thread
subject also makes this discussion more findable in the archive.<br>
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<div><span style="font-size:12.8px">That's ok. I
respect the group's wishes and will let it go.
Sometimes it's good to think about things from
a fresh perspective. It's easy to get locked
into an us vs. them mentality, "no need to try
to attract those people... we need more people
like us." Hopefully my contribution might
cause some of that to be re-thought.</span></div>
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<br>
I think you are misunderstanding the mentality; I've never said we
have shouldn't try to attract those people. What I'm saying is that
I don't think we should go to extremities like completely changing
how the desktop is built to try to attract them.<br>
<br>
I should probably also note that I don't consider MintX (and other
Xfce distributions – or other LInux distributions) our "competitors"
in the traditional sense of the word.<br>
<br>
If MintX works better for you, then you should use it. If Xubuntu
works better for you, great! If neither is suitable for you out of
the box, then feel free to pick either one (or a third alternative)
and modify it to your liking. Don't like Xfce? The better use
another desktop environment than continue struggling.<br>
<br>
That is to say, In my opinion, all Linux users are a win for
Xubuntu.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Pasi<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Pasi Lallinaho (knome) › <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://open.knome.fi/">http://open.knome.fi/</a>
Leader of Shimmer Project › <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://shimmerproject.org/">http://shimmerproject.org/</a>
Xubuntu Website Lead › <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://xubuntu.org/">http://xubuntu.org/</a></pre>
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