[TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10

[Thomas Molloy]

That does make a fair bit of sense

+1

> Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:44:42 +0200
> From: simon at xfce.org
> To: xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: [TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10
> 
> On Thu, 31 Jul 2014 10:14:12 +0300
> Pasi Lallinaho <pasi at shimmerproject.org> wrote:
> 
> > On 2014-07-31 06:33, Micah Gersten wrote:
> > > On 07/29/2014 07:10 AM, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:
> > >> Hey Xubuntu team members,
> > >>
> > >> we started voting on a proposal for the default IRC client in
> > >> today's meeting[0].
> > >>
> > >> In short, what we're voting on is whether to drop XChat for Xubuntu
> > >> 14.10.
> > >>
> > >> == Rationale ==
> > >>
> > >> Those who need IRC can still use pidgin and this is a consistent
> > >> move in terms of streamlining our default applications (remember
> > >> the dropping of GThumb in 14.04).
> > >> This decision would be revisited for 15.04, so if we'd see the
> > >> need, we could re-add XChat (or hexchat).
> > >>
> > >> == Voting ==
> > >>
> > >> Just reply with +1, 0 or -1 to this thread – you can obviously also
> > >> explain why you voted one or the other way. So far, we have 4 votes
> > >> from team members for the proposal to drop XChat and 0 against
> > >> (and 0 abstained).
> > >>
> > >> Please note that ONLY XUBUNTU TEAM MEMBERS CAN VOTE. Other votes
> > >> are ignored, so please don't send a vote and waste bandwidth
> > >> unless you are an active member of the Xubuntu team [1].
> > >>
> > >> == End of vote ==
> > >>
> > >> This vote will expire in one week (June 6th, 10:00 UTC), so please
> > >> send in your votes in a timely manner.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers
> > >> Simon
> > >> Xubuntu Project Lead
> > >>
> > >> [0]
> > >> http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-29-10.30.log.txt
> > >> [1] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active
> > >>
> > > -1  I used to use Pidgin's IRC support when I used the other chat
> > > protocols supported in Pidgin.  When XChat was to be added, IIRC, I
> > > originally pushed that we could just use Pidgin for IRC.  However, I
> > > eventually switched to XChat as Pidgin's support for 20+ channels
> > > per server was lacking.  I've been using XChat for a while now and
> > > it seems a very simple to use tool to access freenode amongst other
> > > servers.  I agree with others that have stated in this thread that
> > > since IRC is such an integral part of the Ubuntu community, we'd be
> > > best served to keep an easy to use client like XChat.  If there is
> > > a simpler client that can be integrated, I'd be open to that.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Micah
> > >
> > 
> > Is this argument based on solely on your own needs and wants or the 
> > target audience of Xubuntu?
> > 
> > I'd argue that most of our target audience users do not wish to join
> > 20+ channels (per server) at a time. On the other hand, those who do
> > know how to install their favorite IRC client from the repositories.
> > They might even prefer other options, like running screen and irssi
> > on a server. In both of these cases the default pick for an IRC
> > client is mostly irrelevant for them.
> > 
> > On another note for this discussion, some of the arguments against
> > have been in the spirit of "if we drop Xchat, it's too hard for new
> > people to join the IRC for a support question". How is running Xchat
> > and finding your way to #xubuntu easier than navigating to
> > http://xubuntu.org/irc/ (which is available in our installation
> > slideshow) and clicking connect?
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Pasi
> 
> I completely agree with Pasi on this one.
> Even if IRC is an integral part of the Ubuntu community, we currently
> provide three avenues to get there (Webchat, XChat, Pidgin) and the
> argument that Pidgin isn't good enough for advanced IRC usage misses
> the point of this proposal.
> (But I guess the right way to take that is that maybe the proposal was
> flawed or written up to hastily, assuming that since those present at
> the meeting agreed, all others would too, hence not presenting all the
> arguments.)
> 
> Fun fact: I don't know anyone in person who has installed X/Ubuntu and
> then used IRC to get support. Those folks just used
> $your_favorite_searchengine.
> This is NOT meant as anecdotal evidence to support my argument, but it
> illustrates that everyone has to accept the premise that IRC is the
> "golden path" for people to get support. (Just because the community
> and the contributors use IRC doesn't mean users will.)
> 
> Be that as it may...
> Why I wanted to go ahead with this proposal is because I think that
> 14.10 is the perfect time to experiment a bit and get some feedback on
> things. If people complain about the lack of XChat – if there's a
> shitstorm about it even – I wouldn't take that as a failure of our
> decision but as a great reason to install it again by default, knowing
> for sure that it makes sense for many users.
> 
> Cheers
> Simon
> 
> -- 
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