xubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 7

Thu Nov 29 16:20:23 UTC 2012

Hello,

This is the first time I post to the mailing list so to everyone hello!  I
think the major problem with Xubuntu isn't software selection but "look and
feel" and corporate branding.  Finding applications on the Ubuntu Software
Center or via Synaptic/APT is so easy that it basically any additional
packages can just be downloaded after installation.  In fact I don't even
think that very many default applications should be included.  The
experience should be geared towards customization so I think the focus
should be to have a very simple and bare bones default install.

Xubuntu should reflect Ubuntu and Canonical and the XFCE logo should be
replaced with Canonical oriented graphics and logos that make people know
they are using Ubuntu and not a generic XFCE distribution.  The crucial
areas are the application menu, greeter screen and the wallpapers.  These
should match 100% with the exact same logos, graphics and wallpapers
included in the default Ubuntu installs.  I can't really tell the
difference between Fedora XFCE and Xubuntu when it's running and that's a
major problem.  The difference should be clear as day and people should
instantly recognize Xubuntu as the Ubuntu and therefore Canonical oriented
XFCE spin.

Themes are also very important.  The icons should be by default Faenza so
to create a very cool and fresh look that matches well with the Ubuntu
Unity icon sets.  The actual XFCE themes by default should match standard
Unity Ubuntu installations with a Xubuntu specific theme port of both
Ambiance and Radiance.  These themes should be default but greybird,
bluebird and albatross should also be included.  The whole idea is to
create an experience that visually matches with whatever the Ubuntu Unity
guys are doing and is parallel.

Most of my time is spent customizing the look and feel of Xubuntu to get it
to look sharp, cool and to match well with the thematic aspects of Ubuntu
Unity.  This shouldn't ever happen.  Out of the box Xubuntu should match up
1:1 with the Ubuntu Unity look and feel and Canonical branding efforts.  I
even had to replace the Xfce mouse icon with the official Ubuntu logo in
the application menu and I wish that it was this way by default.

Just my thoughts and thank you for an awesome distribution...

Best,
Alex

On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:55 AM, <xubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Eero Tamminen)
>    2. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (paco)
>    3. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (David Berm?dez Guiot)
>    4. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Sean Davis)
>    5. Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04 (Bruno Benitez)
>    6. Re: Could use some help on some 12.10 FAQ (Brian Smith)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:55:10 +0200
> From: Eero Tamminen <oak at helsinkinet.fi>
> To: xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04
> Message-ID: <201211291355.10852.oak at helsinkinet.fi>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi,
>
> On torstai 29 marraskuu 2012, PK wrote:
> > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list
> > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you:
> >
> > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is
> > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So
> > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I
> > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural
> > place is in a mini like Lubuntu...
>
> What are the advantages of LibreOffice compared to Abiword and Gnumeric,
> is there anything else besides better (but not perfect) compatibility
> with Microsoft Office?
>
> Downsides of LibreOffice:
> - Starts very slowly
> - Uses a lot of memory
> - Huge disk usage with lots of otherwise redundant dependencies
>   - it for example brings in Java
> - Isn't IMHO integrated as nicely to the desktop (help etc)
>
>
> Generally I almost always prefer using Gnumeric over LOCalc,
> as in my experience Gnumeric works better for the basic spreadsheet
> stuff.  While it loads Excel spreadsheets OK, they might not look
> that good.
>
> AFAIK Abiword got support for multi-user document editing
> from OLPC project, which is a feature completely missing
> from LibreOffice, isn't it?
>
>
> Another alternative is to document better how user can add
> extra software after installation.  There could even be an icon
> on the desktop that opens software center to LibreOffice.
>
> (With icon comment stating something about MS-office compatibility)
>
>
> > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool
> > professional tool...
>
> Would this be in addition to Ubuntu software center?
>
> (While that is pretty and provides user reviews,
> it's so slow that half the time I use Synaptic.)
>
>
> > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are
> > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful
> > statement about it's coolness.
>
> Coolness isn't the first thing that springs to mind from MS-office
> and stuff that's compatible to it.
>
> I would associate that more with stuff that is geared towards artists
> and creativity in general; graphics, sound, music, animation,
> 3d modeling and science software.
>
> Examples of this kind of software are: gimp, audacity, hydrogen,
> qsynth & vmpk, synfig, blender, stellarium etc.
>
>
> Unfortunately a lot of music SW brings in Qt libraries and soundfonts
> can be pretty large too.  Qsynth & VMPK are pretty cool though,
> you can play e.g. multitimbral church organ with your keyboard. :-)
>
> (Horgand gives even better organ sound, but that requires Jack.)
>
>
> > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are
> > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW
> > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find
> > CD-R's, if you're lucky.
>
> In my experience Xubuntu & Gnome DVD (ISO) burning software is too buggy
> to change the distribution to DVD images.  Whenever I try them, I get
> DVD frisbees, KDE's K3b is the only SW with which I've reliably gotten DVD
> images burned.
>
> (I haven't tried DVD-burning with the latest 12.x (X)Ubuntu releases,
> but I've tried with several different machines / CD-drives.)
>
>
>         - Eero
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 13:11:33 +0100
> From: paco <paco at byasl.com>
> To: xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04
> Message-ID: <50B750F5.6020502 at byasl.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi all,
>
> El 29/11/12 12:17, PK escribi?:
> > Hello,
> >
> > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish
> > list for Xubuntu 13.04 with you:
> >
> > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu
> > is a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and
> > KDE. So it needs to have a professional office suite by default.
> > Note that I *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But
> > it's natural place is in a mini like Lubuntu...
> >
> > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a
> > cool professional tool...
> >
> > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are
> > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a
> > powerful statement about it's coolness.
> >
> > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's
> > are dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and
> > DVD+RW that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can
> > still find CD-R's, if you're lucky.
>
> - From my point of view, CD issue is very important and to preserve
> Xubuntu on a size to fit on CD guarantee the possibility to use on old
> machines. So in my opinion any addition of software must avoid this goal.
>
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Regards, Pjotr.
> >
>
> Best regards
>
> - --
>
> Francisco Molinero
> www.pacoaldia.com
>
> Este correo ha sido gestionado con Linux
> No lo imprima si no es absolutamente necesario
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 07:33:14 -0600
> From: David Berm?dez Guiot <davidb.guiot at gmail.com>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04
> Message-ID:
>         <CALPgYzFovtXL=
> sJMY4NNBEUKBvKs275i3o2En9P_56-HrTLrCg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I agree with Paco about almost everything, and also you can still put the
> iso in a flash drive to install it or run it live.
>
> Have a great day guys!
>
> David Berm?dez Guiot
> Mail para Android
> El 29/11/2012 05:18, "PK" <pliniusminor at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list
> > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you:
> >
> > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is
> > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So
> > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I
> > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural
> > place is in a mini like Lubuntu...
> >
> > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool
> > professional tool...
> >
> > Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are
> > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful
> > statement about it's coolness.
> >
> > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are
> > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW
> > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find
> > CD-R's, if you're lucky.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> > Regards, Pjotr.
> >
> > --
> > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:46:01 -0500
> From: Sean Davis <smd.seandavis at gmail.com>
> To: xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04
> Message-ID:
>         <CACWZUoaCiVDzV9HX5YvzfX=
> v3QwWXPwMWQFyJqV3zaasuBbWzw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Good day,
>
> My thoughts...  :-)
>
> On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 7:00 AM, <xubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > As suggested by ochosi on IRC, I would like to discuss this wish list
> > for Xubuntu 13.04 with you:
> >
> > 1. LibreOffice in the iso instead of Abiword and Gnumeric. Xubuntu is
> > a full fledged alternative for the big boys Unity, Gnome and KDE. So
> > it needs to have a professional office suite by default. Note that I
> > *like* Abiword; heck, I even translate it upstream. But it's natural
> > place is in a mini like Lubuntu...
> >
>
> As far as space concerns go, LibreOffice is a beast.  At this point, it
> absolutely won't fit on the CD, and might pose problems for even larger
> image.  Abiword and Gnumeric might not be the best at what they do, but
> they are sufficient for light word processing and spreadsheets.  And since
> office applications are not really the heart of a distribution, I think
> it's best that we provide users some "good-enough" office applications and
> be well-rounded in other areas.
>
>
> > 2. Synaptic and GDebi in the iso. Especially Synaptic is such a cool
> > professional tool...
> >
> Of course you can install it afterwards. But first impressions are
> > important: the default installation of Xubuntu should be a powerful
> > statement about it's coolness.
> >
>
> Synaptic and GDebi are poorly (if at all) maintained.  Ubuntu is moving
> forward with the Ubuntu Software Center and fully supporting it.
>  Additionally, the USC is the only place that users can access the pay-for
> applications, which are increasing as Ubuntu becomes more profitable to
> game developers and other software companies.  And if we're already having
> space issues, I don't think we really don't need three applications that
> serve the same (or similar) purpose.
>
>
> >
> > I suppose this would mean a DVD iso instead of a CD iso. But CD's are
> > dying anyway; when I go to a store, it's nearly all DVD+R and DVD+RW
> > that I see on the shelves. Somewhere tucked away you can still find
> > CD-R's, if you're lucky.
> >
>
> I agree that a CD format is probably not preferable in the long run.  The
> Linux kernel, applications, libraries, toolkits, and localisations are
> growing in size.  If we're having space issues now, I foresee having to
> drop even more stuff for future releases, and probably be further
> prohibited from actually adding anything new.
>
> Cheers,
> Sean
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 12:00:21 -0300
> From: Bruno Benitez <gridcube at gmail.com>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Wish list for Xubuntu 13.04
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAKGTh9H4GhVJmn5a4NTfKD43muD_RbXM1TTaJ45Lv5ueanibZA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I think that the argument for keeping the iso size to less that 700MiB to
> provide a CD fittable size for older machines its not relevant, Xubuntu has
> already dropped the Alternate iso, and we foster the idea of using the mini
> iso to install xubuntu on older machines.
>
> I understand the problem with bigger size might be more packages to mantain
> and more complexity for the future, but there could be devised a way to
> mantain the packages count low, but allow to breath space for new versions
> and small changes that are needed.
>
> I don't agree to install LibreOffice by default though, even when it does
> have better print management than Abiword, because it would add lots of
> complexity to the ISO.
>
> --
> Bruno.-
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 10:55:02 -0500
> From: Brian Smith <xubuntu-dev-list at nairb.us>
> To: Xubuntu Development Discussion <xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Subject: Re: Could use some help on some 12.10 FAQ
> Message-ID: <50B78556.5060108 at nairb.us>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> for number 8 - the easiest is to move to the workspace you wish the
> application to start in, then start the application. once the
> application loads, you may move around your workspaces leaving that
> application loaded in the desired workspace.
>
> On 11/28/2012 08:08 PM, Jack Fromm wrote:
> > On 11/28/2012 04:42 PM, Elizabeth Krumbach wrote:
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> We're polishing up the last of the FAQ for 12.10 (better late than
> >> never!). Given our time zone distance I keep missing people on IRC and
> >> we could use some help with solutions & wording for the following
> >> questions:
> >>
> >> First #2 doesn't actually have a question, so we need the question
> >> regarding the messaging regression and our explanation as to why/what
> >> happened:
> >>
> >> 2. (regressions [messaging-menu])
> >>
> >> And our Best Practice answers to these:
> >>
> >> 3. I don?t see my sound indicator anymore, how do I get it back?
> >>
> >> 8. How do you start a specific application in specific workspace?
> >>
> >> Thanks all.
> >>
> > For number 3, how about the following:
> > Right-click on a blank area of the panel and select Panel->Add New
> > Items. Find the Indicator Plugin in the list, select it and click the
> > Add button.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>
>
> End of xubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 86, Issue 7
> ********************************************
>
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