Karmic Spec: Thunderbird Vs. Claws

Tue Jul 21 00:22:09 UTC 2009

I used Ubuntu for quite awhile before going over to Xubuntu. I simply wanted
to experience Xubuntu and quickly became a fan. I found it much easier to
set-up my wireless, had fewer things to delete that I don't want or need. I
hope it lasts forever!

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Vincent <mailinglists at vinnl.nl> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Charlie Kravetz <
> cjk at teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:41:40 +0200
>> Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss at elfenbeinturm.at> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:31:45 -0600
>> > Charlie Kravetz <cjk at teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Thu, 14 May 2009 15:23:51 +0200
>> > > Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss at elfenbeinturm.at> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi everyone,
>> > > >
>> > > > I just wanted to give you an update on what I worked on recently,
>> > > > a comparison between Thunderbird and Claws as standard mail
>> > > > client for Xubuntu Karmic.
>> > > >
>> > > > You can find my comparison here:
>> > > >
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/ThunderbirdVsClaws
>> > > > If you have thoughts on it, let me know. As it was a first-timer
>> > > > for me there might be points that I've missed etc.
>> > > >
>> > > > I hope this spec will be a good basis for deciding on the
>> > > > standard-mail client in Xubuntu Karmic.
>> > > >
>> > > > All the best
>> > > > Simon
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > By the way, if I find the time I will try to do another test
>> > > > between gpicview and geeqie (a gqview-fork), but I can't promise
>> > > > I'll be done with that before UDS.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > An interesting read for anyone still wondering about the power and
>> > > ability of claws mail:
>> > >
>> > > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=780
>> > >
>> > > This is from an individual outside of Xubuntu.
>> > >
>> >
>> > An interesting read indeed. I can only say that this totally reflects
>> > my initial impetus of proposing claws versus thunderbird and that I'm
>> > still subscribing to this view. However, I have found that either
>> > sides (claws, xubuntu) have their arguments about usability
>> > (especially people who are not [ever going to be] power-users): claws
>> > doesn't really target people who aren't able (or not willing to) deal
>> > with a certain amount of flexibility (because they want to provide
>> > the best experience for the rest) and xubuntu (at least imho)
>> > sometimes isn't so sure about its target group: is it the linux
>> > first-timers? Is it people who switch from Ubuntu to something
>> > faster/more lightweight and possibly more geeky? I personally think
>> > that there is a very small (or even marginal) group of linux-first
>> > timers that start with xubuntu and are overwhelmed by claws'
>> > complexity (at least that's my personal experience with ~10 of my
>> > non-tech-nerd friends). but anyways, i think it's a difficult
>> > decision if you want to increase your userbase.
>> >
>> > In the end the question might be: does xubuntu as a whole have a
>> > really distinct profile? (as opposed to Ubuntu) Obviously xfce makes
>> > a lot of that difference to gnome, and a few different standard apps,
>> > different artwork etc (I really don't want to play down xubuntu's
>> > individual character, but since mostly in our discussions about
>> > standard apps we were talking about *first* impressions, this is one
>> > that some people outside the community might get from looking at it)
>> > and xubuntu is supposed to be a lot more lightweight than Ubuntu. (At
>> > least there are some tests out there suggesting that the difference
>> > is not that big. I guess that's due to some common daemons...
>> > Whatever.) But be that as it may (with the tests, I mean), I would be
>> > interested in your thoughts: should xubuntu be geekier than Ubuntu or
>> > just as easy to use (yes, I think this might be an opposition)? Also
>> > try to consider the question of speed and use on older machines, as
>> > this seems to be one of the core features where xubuntu wants to
>> > outshine Ubuntu.
>> >
>> > Alright, this got a bit long, sorry if I'm blathering too much. Will
>> > work on being more concise :)
>> >
>> > Simon
>> >
>>
>> An opinion of mine: I have always held the belief that if users want
>> the ease of use and comfort of Gnome, they should be using Ubuntu, not
>> Xubuntu. Xfce does not have the configurability ease of gnome. I do not
>> believe it should have. If the environment is the same, why call it
>> something else?
>>
>> Per the Xfce website, '"Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for
>> various *NIX systems. Designed for productivity, it loads and executes
>> applications fast, while conserving system resources." - Olivier
>> Fourdan, creator of Xfce'. No place do I find easy to configure, good
>> for beginners, easy to change, just like gnome, etc, that seems so
>> important to so many now. I am amazed every time I see a bug report
>> that states "gnome has this, why not xfce?". Indeed, why should xfce?
>> If you want what gnome has, use gnome.
>>
>> I personally would prefer to see Xubuntu head in a direction that
>> caters more to advanced users. Let Ubuntu keep the new user. They are
>> well suited for them, already. It is hard enough to keep the
>> distribution going, without trying to cater to every user out there. I
>> like the fact that Xfce is not the same as Gnome, and I hope it will
>> stay that way. The more we can tune to the advanced user, the more
>> excess can be thrown out. Advanced users will change configuration
>> files, with or without a GUI. Sorry, beginner, it will be much harder
>> for you.
>>
>> Advanced users will dig into the documentation, even though it means
>> reading it from /usr/share/xfce, beginners may not even find it.
>>
>> On the other hand, I will continue to use Xubuntu and support the
>> developers as long as it serves my own needs. Long live Xubuntu!
>
>
> On the other hand, Xubuntu is not only Xfce, but also Ubuntu, which has
> more of a goal of being easy to use. We might as well throw out all those
> Ubuntu apps that make life easier but decrease performance, such as their
> Python tools like Add/Remove, update-notifier, jockey etc.
>
> Also, if we want users to edit configuration files and use the command
> line, why have a GUI at all?
>
> We could try to cater more to the power user, but if we're going with GUI
> and Ubuntu then I would argue for really going for that. It might also be
> troublesome because we do need GNOME applications to provide a more complete
> environment, and they do embrace GNOME principles. Come to think of it, the
> Xfce developers have also kind of embraced the GNOME HIG.
>
> OK, it's late and I'm not sharp so I'm going to end this here :)
> --
> Vincent
>
> --
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>
>
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