Karmic Spec: Thunderbird Vs. Claws

[Vincent]

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Charlie Kravetz <
cjk at teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:41:40 +0200
> Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss at elfenbeinturm.at> wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 12:31:45 -0600
> > Charlie Kravetz <cjk at teamcharliesangels.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 14 May 2009 15:23:51 +0200
> > > Simon Steinbeiß <simon.steinbeiss at elfenbeinturm.at> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > I just wanted to give you an update on what I worked on recently,
> > > > a comparison between Thunderbird and Claws as standard mail
> > > > client for Xubuntu Karmic.
> > > >
> > > > You can find my comparison here:
> > > >
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Specifications/Karmic/ThunderbirdVsClaws
> > > > If you have thoughts on it, let me know. As it was a first-timer
> > > > for me there might be points that I've missed etc.
> > > >
> > > > I hope this spec will be a good basis for deciding on the
> > > > standard-mail client in Xubuntu Karmic.
> > > >
> > > > All the best
> > > > Simon
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > By the way, if I find the time I will try to do another test
> > > > between gpicview and geeqie (a gqview-fork), but I can't promise
> > > > I'll be done with that before UDS.
> > > >
> > >
> > > An interesting read for anyone still wondering about the power and
> > > ability of claws mail:
> > >
> > > http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/opensource/?p=780
> > >
> > > This is from an individual outside of Xubuntu.
> > >
> >
> > An interesting read indeed. I can only say that this totally reflects
> > my initial impetus of proposing claws versus thunderbird and that I'm
> > still subscribing to this view. However, I have found that either
> > sides (claws, xubuntu) have their arguments about usability
> > (especially people who are not [ever going to be] power-users): claws
> > doesn't really target people who aren't able (or not willing to) deal
> > with a certain amount of flexibility (because they want to provide
> > the best experience for the rest) and xubuntu (at least imho)
> > sometimes isn't so sure about its target group: is it the linux
> > first-timers? Is it people who switch from Ubuntu to something
> > faster/more lightweight and possibly more geeky? I personally think
> > that there is a very small (or even marginal) group of linux-first
> > timers that start with xubuntu and are overwhelmed by claws'
> > complexity (at least that's my personal experience with ~10 of my
> > non-tech-nerd friends). but anyways, i think it's a difficult
> > decision if you want to increase your userbase.
> >
> > In the end the question might be: does xubuntu as a whole have a
> > really distinct profile? (as opposed to Ubuntu) Obviously xfce makes
> > a lot of that difference to gnome, and a few different standard apps,
> > different artwork etc (I really don't want to play down xubuntu's
> > individual character, but since mostly in our discussions about
> > standard apps we were talking about *first* impressions, this is one
> > that some people outside the community might get from looking at it)
> > and xubuntu is supposed to be a lot more lightweight than Ubuntu. (At
> > least there are some tests out there suggesting that the difference
> > is not that big. I guess that's due to some common daemons...
> > Whatever.) But be that as it may (with the tests, I mean), I would be
> > interested in your thoughts: should xubuntu be geekier than Ubuntu or
> > just as easy to use (yes, I think this might be an opposition)? Also
> > try to consider the question of speed and use on older machines, as
> > this seems to be one of the core features where xubuntu wants to
> > outshine Ubuntu.
> >
> > Alright, this got a bit long, sorry if I'm blathering too much. Will
> > work on being more concise :)
> >
> > Simon
> >
>
> An opinion of mine: I have always held the belief that if users want
> the ease of use and comfort of Gnome, they should be using Ubuntu, not
> Xubuntu. Xfce does not have the configurability ease of gnome. I do not
> believe it should have. If the environment is the same, why call it
> something else?
>
> Per the Xfce website, '"Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for
> various *NIX systems. Designed for productivity, it loads and executes
> applications fast, while conserving system resources." - Olivier
> Fourdan, creator of Xfce'. No place do I find easy to configure, good
> for beginners, easy to change, just like gnome, etc, that seems so
> important to so many now. I am amazed every time I see a bug report
> that states "gnome has this, why not xfce?". Indeed, why should xfce?
> If you want what gnome has, use gnome.
>
> I personally would prefer to see Xubuntu head in a direction that
> caters more to advanced users. Let Ubuntu keep the new user. They are
> well suited for them, already. It is hard enough to keep the
> distribution going, without trying to cater to every user out there. I
> like the fact that Xfce is not the same as Gnome, and I hope it will
> stay that way. The more we can tune to the advanced user, the more
> excess can be thrown out. Advanced users will change configuration
> files, with or without a GUI. Sorry, beginner, it will be much harder
> for you.
>
> Advanced users will dig into the documentation, even though it means
> reading it from /usr/share/xfce, beginners may not even find it.
>
> On the other hand, I will continue to use Xubuntu and support the
> developers as long as it serves my own needs. Long live Xubuntu!


On the other hand, Xubuntu is not only Xfce, but also Ubuntu, which has more
of a goal of being easy to use. We might as well throw out all those Ubuntu
apps that make life easier but decrease performance, such as their Python
tools like Add/Remove, update-notifier, jockey etc.

Also, if we want users to edit configuration files and use the command line,
why have a GUI at all?

We could try to cater more to the power user, but if we're going with GUI
and Ubuntu then I would argue for really going for that. It might also be
troublesome because we do need GNOME applications to provide a more complete
environment, and they do embrace GNOME principles. Come to think of it, the
Xfce developers have also kind of embraced the GNOME HIG.

OK, it's late and I'm not sharp so I'm going to end this here :)
-- 
Vincent
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