Idea for Lucid (and beyond..)

Lionel Le Folgoc mrpouit at
Sat Dec 5 17:10:07 UTC 2009

Hi there,

(I stripped some parts to reduce the size of the mail ;)

On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 03:41:03PM +0200, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:
> Charlie Kravetz wrote:
> > On Sat, 5 Dec 2009 09:05:45 +0100
> > Steve Dodier <sidnioulz at> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >> Both Synaptic and gnome-app-install are being replaced by the Software
> >> Centre (not sure if it's the exact name). This new app brings a few
> >> dependencies but it's likely that removing gnome-app-install and synaptic
> >> will make enough room on the CD for it.
> >> As long as it doesn't pull mono and gnome* I'm all for giving the new app a
> >> try.
> >>
> >> Maybe we could ask the desktop team what they think will be ready for Lucid
> >> in the software centre, and whether they think they'll be able to replace
> >> synaptic in this release.

There is enough room on the livecd anyway. I think that we *have to*
switch to software-center for lucid, because gnome-app-install has
already been demoted from main to universe in karmic (which means that
Canonical folks don't want to support it anymore, and since they were
the only ones touching it…).

> >>> 2) gnome-system-monitor
> >>>       
> >>>> [snip]
> >>>>
> >>> For now, I don't think the Xfce components can deliver the same amount
> >>> of features and, regretfully, quality. I also like htop, but we can't
> >>> consider it as the main application for system monitoring, as it's CLI
> >>> and many people fear command line.
> >>>
> >>>       
> >> Gnome system monitor monitors system load, network load, ram and swap usage,
> >> and HDD usage. It may be doing too much for one's needs, but when you want
> >> to know if some app is using all of your bandwidth, it's cool to can check
> >> in the system monitor without having to go in command line.
> >>
> >> While xftaskmanager may be more appropriate for your needs,
> >> gnome-system-monitor is in my opinion better for end users.
> >>

We have already xfce4-cpugraph-plugin, xfce4-systemload-plugin,
xfce4-netload-plugin and xfce4-taskmanager. The fact that gnome devs
decided to make a single program (gnome-system-monitor) for that doesn't
imply that we should blindly do the same.

(Anyway, I've no strong opinion on this, I think htop is the best one.

> >>>> 3) Totem
> >>>>
> >>>> [snip]
> >>>>
> >> I can name only one player that also uses a decent backend and that is
> >> written with a proper GTK+ GUI. It's Parole, and I'm looking forward to it,
> >> but considering that it's rather new, we can't expect it to be as integrated
> >> in the desktop yet (for instance, does it already manage to find missing
> >> codecs for the user?).
> >>
> >> Whats the point of a player with tons of features like audacity, mplayer or
> >> vlc if it crashes miserably when you launch a file or if the GUI is
> >> difficult to use because of some particular skin, or very debatable keyboard
> >> shortcut choices? I'm all for keeping Totem for the LTS, and testing Parole
> >> from the very beginning of Lucid+1's release cycle (ie. before alpha 1, and
> >> until beta 1 at least, so we can report bugs to Ali and see what's missing
> >> from the Xubuntu point of view).

The issue with mplayer, vlc, or any ffmpeg related player, is that they
can't be shipped on a live cd (decision of the TB).

About the missing codecs, I think any gstreamer-based player will be
handled by gnome-codec-install without problem (this is the case for
totem currently, so it might work fine for parole as well).

> >>
> >>  [snip]
> >
> > I do NOT want to look for a firefox replacement and the issues it will
> > bring into an LTS release. That belongs in the regular release, perhaps
> > lucid +1. Lucid as an LTS needs to be as solid as we can make it. It is
> > not the release to test what we can in, but rather, the release to fix
> > what we can in.
> >   
> I have to agree with Charlie here. Changing the default browser to
> something not Firefox in an LTS release would really make our users mad,
> even if it was working. And at this time, I'm not sure if midori is even
> working fairly enough.

Indeed, there are lots of possible changes:
1/ xfce 4.6 -> 4.8
2/ brasero -> xfburn
3/ totem -> parole
4/ gnome-system-monitor -> xfce4-taskmanager, xfce4-*-plugin
5/ gnome-app-install -> software-center
6/ gnome-screensaver -> xscreensaver
7/ firefox -> midori

As lucid is a LTS, I think we should focus on the most "safe" ones: 5/
and 6/. Keeping gnome-screensaver is dangerous (who knows what stupid
ideas will gnome developers have for lucid? -- currently in karmic,
there's no screen locking without gnome-session); I consider
gnome-app-install as "unmaintained upstream", so we shouldn't keep it


Lionel Le Folgoc -
E61E 116D 4BA1 3936 0A33  F61D 65D9 A66E 10E2 969A
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