gnome apps

Jani Monoses jani at ubuntu.com
Fri Feb 1 22:11:18 GMT 2008


Lionel Le Folgoc (mr_pouit) wrote:
> Jani Monoses a écrit :
>> Hi
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> I am awaiting for an answer to these questions, otherwise please revert
>> the seeds back to where they were in 7.10, except maybe ristretto, and
>> start changing things only after discussed.
> 
> "Do what I say not what I do."
> Do you understand that you are blaming us for doing the same thing you
> did during gutsy development? You changed the seeds and then asked on
> the mailing list, do you remember?
> Thus you're not the right person for speaking about open development
> process.

I am pretty sure I did notify the list before changing most parts of the 
seeds. I remember the changes took places not all at once but during a 
couple of months while we talked about it on the list,

So comparing with the current situation, and using that tone is just 
misleading and rude.

Now for the facts: during gutsy I gave technical reasons, argued for 
user friendliness and pointed out maintenance issues when comparing 
various apps.

On the other hand you and Jerome were only talking about a vague notion 
of desktop lightness and independence of GNOME apps, arguments which 
only matter for Xfce fans. The lightness aspect which I talked about per
app you are only handwaving about and have no idea where the bloat 
actually comes from.


> 
> There are several people subscribed to this mailing list, they can all
> give their opinion about the choices we made on the seeds. If most of
> them think we should revert all these changes and put the seeds back to
> where they were in 7.10, of course we'll revert.
> But your opinion counts only for one vote, and so far, two people said
> that xubuntu gutsy was slower and heavier than the previous releases. So
> for the moment, the seeds are not going to change.

I doubt that it is by voting according to preferences how the consensus 
can be achieved. If you have logical arguments to back your changes do 
so and stop avoiding it.

As I recall in gutsy I did not do this behind anybody's back. It 
probably was against your and others preference, but the reason is back 
then you did not present reasonable arguments for keeping the gtk only 
or xfce apps. You and Jerome and others voiced your dislike of GNOME and
predicted a bleak future for Xubuntu because of the choice of GNOME apps 
but nothing more substantiated. Once you resort only to emotional 
arguments your cause is lost.

So again, instead of calling for vote and ducking my questions of two 
mails ago, start argumenting each chaneg you have made to the seeds.
There are about 10, it should not be too long a mail.

If you fail to do that it means you do not have other reasons than that 
you disliked the changes in gutsy and want them reverted.


> 
> I would be glad if as many people as possible on this list could give
> their opinion about the seeds[*], this way we could really call this an
> open development process...

It's not the number of people who givetheir oppinion that counts but of 
the number of people who have an oppinion and can back it up without 
handwaving,

You are again forgetting that with all these new apps you think we 
should ship just to be different you'll have a lot more maintenance work
after release. The SRUs for GNOME are happening because the Ubuntu 
maintainers do them. With the beta quality software you'll have to fix 
the bugs yourself. No, PPA does not count, regular users will not enable 
an external archive but will have ubuntu-updates.

Jani




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