[UbuntuWomen] Ubuntu, women and artwork...

[Micah Cowan]

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Vid Ayer wrote:

>>  I'm fairly certain that
>> you'll find such depictions to fall under the protected realm of parody,
>> which is quite sufficient to prevent Canonical, trademark holders though
>> they may be, from preventing it.
> 
> Does it mean that the current TM-policy document actually encourages
> the negative portrayal of women under the protected realm of parody ?

It means that it does not /matter/ what the TM-policy document says.
There is nothing legally Canonical can do, no matter how much it might
speak against it in some document, to undermine that legal protection.
At least, in my country and perhaps some others (this may be a very
US-specific claim that I'm making; I know that parody is not protected
in all countries, at least).

Now, if it were truly clear-cut, from a legal standpoint, that the
artwork presents a negative portrayal of women, you could possibly sue
the creators on grounds other than trademark. But that would still have
nothing to do with Canonical or Ubuntu; it'd probably need to be a
class-action lawsuit on the behalf of womankind.

>> This is completely different, assuming that they portray these as
>> officially sanctioned, and AFAIK could absolutely be actioned against,
>> as it would fall well outside of parody and into trademark breach. If it
>> were to happen with a small, private group, amongst themselves as a sort
>> of joke, though, it would probably still qualify as parody.
> 
> ....  TBH, now I am confused if you are pro- (or against) such images
> using the Ubuntu logos prominently *or* whether you are suggesting
> that such images are normal and women should get used to being
> portrayed as "objects", hence not complain ?

Where in the world did you get such a notion? I am simply stating how I
understand the law to apply to it (though, again, this is probably
specific to the US).

I have not once revealed my own views on the graphics, and given your
apparent interest in arguing ad hominem, depending on what you discover
my viewpoint to be, I hardly see how it would be constructive.

What /is/ clear, however, is that there is a wide range of opinion on
the graphics, and the very fact of its offensiveness seems to be
controversial, as some women have already expressed the opinion that
they don't find it particularly offensive/degrading.

>> But until we
>> actually have a known case of this happening that someone wants to
>> object to, I don't see much point in debating the theory of whether or
>> not it would be right/wrong/legal/illegal.
> 
> Responses like "why should we do anything unless someone complains",
> "its freedom/parody/humor/...", simply reiterates the "be silent,
> don't question us" misogynist attitude towards women.

Who is arguing any such thing? I'm not saying "we shouldn't do anything
unless someone complains:" clearly, people are complaining (about the
artwork). I'm saying we shouldn't do anything about things that haven't
happened (passing this artwork off as official).

To be crystal clear: I am not and have not been arguing about whether or
not the artwork is demeaning, degrading, or offensive. I am also not
arguing about whether or not Ubuntu or Canonical should permit it. What
I have been arguing, is that Canonical has no legal authority to forbid
it, and so it is moot to argue the other points.

I am somewhat saddened that you seem now to have taken the tactic of
reading into my words, whatever you wish them to say, rather than what
they actually do say, and therefore I don't think it will be wise to
continue discussing it with you. I really do wish you well, and hope
that other conversations we may have, on this forum or others, will be
more productive ones.

- --
Micah J. Cowan
Programmer, musician, typesetting enthusiast, gamer...
http://micah.cowan.name/
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