[UbuntuWomen] Some will never learn...

[Melissa Draper]

t u wrote:
> <snip>
>> n Thursday, I spoke over the issue, your issue, with Jono Bacon and the
>> Ubuntu-UK Contact, the two people you mentioned in your email on that
>> day. Neither were impressed with the comments you made about them in the
>> publicly viewable forum that is this list. They were both quite
>> disappointed with the way you spoke about them, without having consulted
>> either beforehand.
>>     
>
> I think this is an unfortunate paragraph. the ubuntu-uk contact (I
> presume the admin) is, afaik, the person that needs to apologize. He is
> also the person who failed to reinforce the CoC. Jono Bacon, on the
> other hand, needs to revisit his understanding of diversity and
> oppression / privilege. I provided him with scholarly material to read
> about the social function of humor in his blog...
>
> Instead, talking about these two people's disappointment with Caroline
> Ford, to me, is plain old intimidation. My observation is that we are
> expecting them to perceive their behavior for what it is (however subtle
> it may be),. We're not expecting them to be impressed etc...
>
>   

The only form of communicating that was done with the UK Contact was the
email to the whole list, the one time, announcing that the posting was a
breach of the CoC. To my knowledge, the UK Contact received no further
communication - no personal emails, no attempts of conversation. Yet he
was still expected to perceive what her disgruntlement was? How?

The Ubuntu-UK contact said this:

"in terms of a personal attack I feel it was not respectful but with
respect to the above im not sure it is intended as a attack on any level."

I read this as: Yes, it was disrespectful and naughty, but it was not
intended to be personal or malicious.

I'm not quite sure what Caroline expected. The poster received a public
shaming and reprimands. Expulsion and burning at the stake would be
overkill. If I make a mistake, I hope to be given the benefit of the
doubt first, not the death sentence.

The contact took the information from what he could see, the original
poster's email, and Caroline's single response. From there he weighed up
the facts, conceded that the original poster was wrong, but at the same
time, balance the decision based on intent.

I'm not sure if the UK Contact has tried to communicate with Caroline,
but I do know that Jono has, in an attempt to get understanding from her
perspective. He has received no response to his attempts to reach out
and help, but instead continued badmouthing about him.

My intention is not and was not to intimidate anyone, however my
intention was to point out that nobody is exempt from misbehavior just
because they have been wronged. Wronged people are *not* privileged to
wrong others. Maybe you need to revisit too?

>> I am personally quite disappointed at the things you have said about
>> Jono, of lacking impartiality and not complying with the CoC. It may be
>> perceived that I am taking a side here. I am. I am taking the side of
>> someone who I've worked with intensively since September, and is someone
>> who I consider to be both a friend and a mentor.
>>
>> Looking over the past week, and I say this as respectfully as it is
>> possible to do so, I can see that you yourself have not been entirely
>> respectful - having said things about others without having first
>> properly consulted them.
>>
>>     
>
> You know -being disrespected, discriminated against, and intimidated
> would make me curse as well. It seems to me that by scrutinizing
> Caroline Ford's emotional reaction to being discriminated against, we
> are not only blaming the victim, we are also point out to a scapegoat
> instead of solving the problem at hand...
>   

I'm not scrutinizing her emotional reaction. I understand her need to
vent, and I'm not blaming her - I've suffered similar in my time and had
similar reactions.

However I am pointing out that in her quest to have someone smited for a
discriminatory and disrespectful act, she herself is discriminating and
being disrespectful.

Publicly accusing Jono of the inability to be impartial because of
association, gender and choice of colloquial words, without first giving
him a chance, is disrespectful and discriminatory.

This has *no longer* has anything to do with the post on the -UK mailing
list, or the events that happened there. This has to do with what has
been said here on *this* list, and the events that are currently
happening here. As I said before, the wronged are not privileged to wrong.

>> So please, and this is to everyone on the list, if you have a problem
>> with someone, talk to the person. 
>>     
>
> I have to disagree. If that someone is a ubuntu-related mailing list
> admin or a higher-up worker of Canonical, the community should be made
> aware of what is going on. I personally appreciate Caroline Ford's
> bravery in pointing us to her experiences of discrimination.
>
>
> If no one points us to problems, those problems will get bigger and
> become the essence of the community / culture...
>   

Sure, let the community know. I do not disagree with this. However don't
make it a witch hunt.

While I was in the discussion with Jono and the UK Contact, they asked
me why *nobody* had come to talk to either of them, why *nobody* had
communicated with them, why *nobody* had given them a chance, before
speaking foul of them in public.

I could not answer this.

All I knew, and all I could tell them, was that *I* was talking to them,
communicating with them and giving them a chance. Unfortunately, it was
not before they were spoken of.


-- 
Sincerely
Melissa Draper

http://www.meldraweb.com

Phone: 0404 595 395
(intl): +61 404 595 395

P.O Box 1412
Lavington, NSW 2641