Ubuntu installers?

[Liam Proven]

On Mon, 9 Jan 2023 at 16:19, M. Fioretti <mfioretti at nexaima.net> wrote:

> what I see as end user is lots of different teams, each packaging
> different bits in a different way, forcing and users to learn all
> those ways, and cope by themselves with any problem this may cause.

Yes. That's Linux.

If you want it all "colour-coordinated", try FreeBSD. It's pretty good
these days and it works well. You can run almost everything that is
bundled with Ubuntu and K/X/L/ubuntu on FreeBSD.

> Not me for sure. Have you read my full post or not?

Last year I did. I disagreed then, as I recall.

Let me go have another look.

OK. This bit is the main part I disagree with:

«
some nightmarish mix of Perl modules from CPAN, Python modules from
pip, Ruby modules from RubyGems, JavaScript code via npm, Flatpak,
Snap or Appimage binaries, random files (e.g CMS themes) to fetch with
git, containers made for different versions of Docker
»

I am a heavy Linux user and Linux professional. I spent 2017-2021
writing and editing documentation for SUSE, and previously did so for
Red Hat too.

I run an unofficial work PC, an official one, a small, a medium, and a
large personal laptop, all with Linux on. I run multiple VMs and have
a home network. I have an ancient, decrepit homepage on the WWW. I am
a heavy user, a power user and a Unix professional since 1989 or so.

I have *NONE* of the stuff you describe. Nothing. Zip, nada, zilch.

No scripts in any scripting language, and I almost never touch shell
scripts. No containers, no CMS, no themes, no Git in use more often
than once a year, no Docker.

I'm not saying it's just you, but it's _not_ the typical user. As
Oliver said: like it or not, you're a developer. The mess of current
scripting languages isn't Ubuntu's fault and it is nothing Canonical
or any distro can fix.

Well, _maybe_ NixOS. :-)

I never have to deal with anything you describe, and I'm glad. I don't want to.

Blame the Perl devs for Perl's problems, and the Python devs for theirs, etc.

If you don't develop, none of these even applies. I know how to `pip
install` things; I've done it twice, for bpytop and ReText. I don't
routinely use either and I don't know if they are still there. I have
no clue whatsoever how to install from CPAN, or a Ruby gem (I think
that's the term), or any of the other stuff you mention, and I hope I
never do.


> Me, I am
> complaining only that there is NO CHOICE AT ALL today, on what I am
> ACTUALLY talking about. That no matter which distro you run, if you
> are even a bit more than the basic user, today you MUST use all the
> packaging tools that exist period.

This is not true.

> Because if you need ten third party
> applications not in the official repository, they are available in
> twelve different package FORMATS, incompatibilities be damned.

This is not true.

> Tell that to Owen. Me, I can't stop because I never started. I've been
> saying from the beginning that MY problem is each community of
> developers falling in love with their own packaging standard/format.

That may be true, but 99% of us can ignore it and be happy.

> Again, no, me I don't give a flying f**k what color the taxi is. I am
> only complaining because I am forced to take all the other things, no
> matter where I want to go.

You force yourself.

> This said: sincere thanks for your explanation of where things are
> going, really! Right now, I have no elements to dispute that that
> strategy will solve also the problems I actually mentioned.

It probably won't.

I think we'll end up with 2 sorts of distro:
* the developer edition, with lots of controls and options...

... which is used to build...

* the user edition, with no controls and no options, and you can only
install from a curated selection of apps in a store... and most people
won't care and will like it.

Over on the openSUSE communities, people are trying running MicroOS as
their desktop, and they seem to like it.

I know people in Red Hat land running Kinoite or Silverblue as their
desktop, and liking it.

You don't hear about it much but Endless seem to be doing OK:

https://endlessos.com/

Immutable OS, R/O root, no package manager. One customised desktop, no
options. Flatpaks and nothing else.

Works great. Fast in 2GB of RAM on a poxy underpowered Celeron, too.

-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
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