Ubuntu installers?

[Owen Thomas]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 07:30, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users <
ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2023-01-11 at 06:21 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
> >
> > A developer is a specific subtype of, and thereby by definition, a
> > user? That;s the way I always saw things.
> >
> > Perhaps part of the problem is that others don't see things this way?
> > What else could a developer be if they weren't also a user?
>
>
> Hi,
>
> in the Ruhr area, for example, ordinary workers who worked on blast
> furnaces were well paid if they had ideas that went far beyond the
> comprehension of well-trained engineers. These engineers had fairly good
> knowledge but no practical experience but were willing to learn from the
> uneducated but experienced workers. In the Linux universe there are
> developers who only develop their software but do not use it
> professionally.
>

I certainly get your point. Developers of a specific software may not use
that software with a specific need of a specific class of user (perhaps
because there is a very large experiential gulf between the two), and so
may lack the visceral experience necessary to make that software meet these
needs. However, I would ordinarily think developers are rather closer to
observing how reasonable it is to create software development environments
that are stable enough not to fall like a house or cards whenever some
esoteric piece of functionality from an obscure third party appears in
their stack after one, say. upgrades one's build tool.

So, your anecdote demonstrates the maxim that everyone has the capacity to
be an idiot, and that because users are a subset of everyone, and
developers are a subset of users, that developers can indeed be idiots too.
People who refuse to recognise that supporting a proliferation of different
tools that do almost identical jobs are surely demonstrating the described
maxim, yes?

I would love to see a reduction in the number of ways to upgrade software
in Ubuntu. If not, I think Ubuntu is going to suffer an inevitable
reduction in the number of people using it. Although I don't really care
how this is done, perhaps Snap is ultimately going to do this. I like
Ubuntu, and I'll fall in love with Snap if it promises to relieve me of
what I perceive is a phenomenon of unnecessary upgrade crises. I really
cannot see any reason, save a desire to run grandpa's PDP-11 Fortran
favourites, to support diversity that would only lead to a reduction in
Ubuntu's user base. Go Snap! Rah rah rah!

On Wed, 11 Jan 2023 at 07:30, Ralf Mardorf via ubuntu-users <
ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2023-01-11 at 06:21 +1100, Owen Thomas wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 Jan 2023 at 22:01, Oliver Grawert <ogra at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> > > hi,
> > > Am Dienstag, dem 10.01.2023 um 07:33 +0100 schrieb M. Fioretti:
> > > \> Cpan to install Perl code, pip to install Python code, gem to
> > > install
> > > > Ruby code, nodejs for JavaScript and so on.
> > > >
> > >
> > > are you aware that this last paragraph actually makes you a
> > > developer
> > > and not a user ?
> > >
> >
> >
> > A developer is a specific subtype of, and thereby by definition, a
> > user? That;s the way I always saw things.
> >
> > Perhaps part of the problem is that others don't see things this way?
> > What else could a developer be if they weren't also a user?
>
>
> Hi,
>
> in the Ruhr area, for example, ordinary workers who worked on blast
> furnaces were well paid if they had ideas that went far beyond the
> comprehension of well-trained engineers. These engineers had fairly good
> knowledge but no practical experience but were willing to learn from the
> uneducated but experienced workers. In the Linux universe there are
> developers who only develop their software but do not use it
> professionally. They defend their unworldly ideas with unfounded
> arguments and unworldly statistics. Do you think that Oliver has a lot
> to do with turbines for nuclear power plants? This is easily
> recognizable nonsense ramblings. Feedback from users is dragged into the
> dirt, look what I wrote and how misleadingly selected he answered.
>
> Regards,
> Ralf
>
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