Anyone running Server on a Raspberry Pi 4?

[Tom H]

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020 at 6:17 PM Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2020 at 12:21, Tom H <tomh0665 at gmail.com> wrote:


>> NetworkManager's developed under the Gnome umbrella, but it's
>> independent (and welcomes criticism!).
>
> Hmm. Well, IME, I find that the GNOME folk do _not_ welcome criticism
> and are somewhat hostile to perceived outsiders. I was at a GUADEC a
> few years ago and it was very interesting.

Gnome's more like a sect than a software project. Any criticism is an
existential threat and is countered accordingly. That's OK; it's its
developers' free choice.

As I said earlier, NetworkManager's developer don't behave in this way.


>> In Fedora and RHEL, NM's the default networking framework for non-X
>> and X installations.
>
> I did run RH in the mid-1990s but not any more. I worked for RH for a
> while in 2014 and the GNOME culture is a reflection of RH culture. I
> was somewhat appalled to find some of the restrictions and limitations
> on RH's Anaconda installer, for instance -- and on taking these to the
> developers I got a strong WONTFIX vibe. RH barely acknowledges that
> other distros exist and designing an installer that can multi-boot
> with other distros, let alone not be the first and default, is not
> only an alien idea but one that they are actively hostile to.

The Anaconda and Gnome developers only like their own ideas. That's
why both projects have been forked.

Regarding multi-boot, the Anaconda team would probably say that it's
difficult to get completely right and that's why it dislikes it. Look
at this list. Didn't someone post a few days ago that he/she couldn't
access the Windows installation after installing Ubuntu? It happens...


> So, no RH here. I have Debian, Devuan, Deepin, Zorin, Ubuntu, Mint
> and various forms of openSUSE but no RH or related products. I
> occasionally take a look to see if things have radically changed, but
> I don't use it on anything.

So many?! I'm using NetBSD and OpenBSD for my home servers, Ubuntu on
my laptop, and I'll get rid of one of the BSDs as soon as I have the
time to go through a rebuild. Until recently, I also had a Fedora VM,
for sentimental reasons, but I've dumped it.


> FWIW openSUSE defaults to wicd for text-only installs, IME.

ACK. I guess that its interface is well-suited to an X-less
installation. But I found wicd convoluted the one time that I tried
it. If NetworkManager weren't wanted in some situation, I'd prefer
connman to wicd; I tried it yesterday for the first time (in a VM),
and I liked its simplicity. On my laptop, I'll stick to NetworkManager
or to my own scripts.


>> In Ubuntu, installing NM installs some components useful for X
>> installations only. I asked whether the dependencies could be reduced
>> a few years ago and I was told "no." That's life :)
>
> Um. Yes.
>
> This is part of why I was so saddened by Ubuntu going back to GNOME... :(

This was when Unity was the default. I should've proposed to split
"network-manager" into "network-manager-base" and "network-manager",
rather than ask whether the "network-manager" dependencies could be
lightened.