wanted: suggestions for used Linux compatible notebooks

[Liam Proven]

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 at 14:37, Tom H <tomh0665 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've installed Linux on Dell, Lenovo (IdeaPad and ThinkPad), and
> Toshiba laptops, so I don't see why/how you can be this categoric.

I currently use a Dell laptop (a Latitude E7270) and 2 Dell desktops,
alongside a variety of other brands, including Lenovo and various
generic clones.

I don't like my Latitude much. It has a horrid chiclet keyboard with
almost no travel and poor feel. The machine feels plasticky and not
very robust.

This year I have also installed 3 or 4 Latitudes and Precisions for
other people. I have experienced problems with:
* the UEFI firmware
* USB 3 docking stations
* laptops with dual GPUs

E.g.

Once nVidia drivers are installed on a dual-GPU Precision, it could no
longer output to displays on the docking station. At all. We ended up
returning one Precision model because I could not get *either* the
Intel or the nVidia GPU working correctly with Linux. After 3 days of
fighting, I got a Latitude instead. The display worked fine on this,
as it only has 1 GPU, the Intel integrated one.

*But* the firmware would not let Linux boot from the hard disk, only
from USB or the network.

I've also had problems with a Precision 5810 desktop.

A friend & I worked on this for nearly a week trying to get it to boot
a pure Linux-only install from hard disk. We tried I think 5 or 6
different distros. The UEFI will not boot any of them. MBR, GPT,
separate /boot partition, separate GRUB partition, it doesn't matter.
It won't boot a Linux-only hard disk. Yes, I updated to the latest
firmware, of course.

I had to install Win10 just in order to get the HD to boot. Then with
Linux as a 2nd OS, it's happy.

After weeks of trying to get 2 graphics cards working at once, I
replaced both with an old nVidia GTX 570 from a colleague. The machine
doesn't have the 8-pin PCIE power connector the card requires. I had
to order a SATA-to-PCIE convertor. When it came, I discovered the only
available connectors are on opposite sides of the case and it is just
barely possible to connect to both. I managed it. Then the lid
wouldn't go on, because there is some big metal box spot-welded to the
lid right over the end of the expansion slots, which fouls the power
connection for the graphics card.

The previous desktop machine was an Optiplex 990, which also gave me problems.

I have, in the past, had problems where, for instance, a customer
accidentally damaged their Dell desktop's motherboard. No other
motherboard would fit the case -- it looks like ATX, but it isn't, not
quite. The PSU connectors are also nonstandard. In the end I had to
build him a whole new PC with a new motherboard and CPU, keeping only
the RAM, disks and graphics card from the Dell. The rest we had to
scrap.

I don't like modern Dells much, desktop or laptop. The company is so
big it doesn't need to stick to industry standards any more. It sets
them, or it bends them as it sees fit, with nonstandard motherboards,
nonstandard PSUs, nonstandard connectors on both so only a Dell
motherboard will fit a Dell case, and only a Dell PSU can power a Dell
motherboard.

1990s Dell desktops were fine.

On the laptops, the firmware on all those I've tried in the last 2
years was horrible, and it's clear it's only tested with Windows, not
Linux. Colleagues have had problems too, like screens that won't work
with a docking station until you boot Windows once and configure them
with Windows.

So, my personal opinion is that I do not like Dell laptops because of
the keyboards and pointing devices, and I don't like Dell desktops
because of nonstandard components and problems fitting or exchanging
parts with off-the-shelf bits.

In both laptops and desktops, I do not like working with their UEFI
firmware, but to be fair, I hate UEFI in general.

I have heard of serious problems even with Dell laptops shipped with
Ubuntu, such as problems using other distros, problems if you don't
have Dell's pre-installed drivers, problems if you try to upgrade to
an unsupported version, etc.

Thinkpads have never given me firmware or GPU problems, and in my
limited experience with docking stations, they have Just Worked™ too.

I have repaired Sony and HP laptops. I have owned Sony and Toshiba.

In all cases, I felt the build quality was inferior to Thinkpads.

I know some people like them. I know some people and some companies
have standardised on them. But I would not spend my own money on them,
when I was working as a consultant I advised my customers to avoid
them.

For desktop, I would choose machines built from generic bits. Well,
actually, I'd choose Apple first, then generic PCs.

I don't like Apple's modern keyboards or trackpads, though, so I do
not use or recommend their modern laptops. Older ones are fine -- I am
currently refurbishing a 2010 MacBook Pro for my girlfriend and it's a
lovely machine with one of the few usable chiclet keyboards and a nice
large, sensitive trackpad.

But for laptops, of all the many makes and models I have owned, used,
worked with, services, repaired and upgraded, Thinkpads have _by far_
the best build quality of any vendor, the best pointing devices, and
until they went chiclet, the best keyboards.

They're not perfect. E.g. I would prefer HDMI ports to DisplayPort.
But they are as good as PC laptops get, and I have had no problem with
their firmware yet.

The consumer stuff -- Ideapads, cheaper desktops, etc. -- have UEFI as
nasty as anyone else's.


-- 
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