Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

[Volker Wysk]

Am Montag, den 17.06.2019, 16:42 +0200 schrieb Liam Proven:
> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 at 14:19, Volker Wysk <post at volker-wysk.de>
> wrote:
> 
> > I've been a KDE user for many years, but I've finally come to the
> > conclusion that it's - still! - too buggy and unstable. I finally
> > want
> > a system that "just works". I don't want to spend my time fighting
> > with
> > bugs.
> 
> I started using desktop Linux when KDE came out. I was a big fan of
> KDE 1, got on all right with KDE 2, found KDE 3 too bloated and KDE 4
> totally unusable. KDE 5 is marginally better than 4 but not
> significantly, for me.
> 
> In other words: Linux is Linux. Desktops are what they are. They're
> _all_ buggy, _all_ unstable to some degree.

And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.

I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if it
worked...


> If you move to another expecting stability, you *will* be
> disappointed.

I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it should
be usable.


> KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.

You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->

If you mean just Plasma, there are parts that aren't mature at all.


> Pretty much the _least_ stable is GNOME, where with v3 they dumped
> the
> entire, mature, well-loved by everyone, even used in Solaris, GNOME 3
> and started over with a poorly-planned, designed-by-committee new
> look.

I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3 very
much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is very
useful.

> It would be the _last_ I recommend. Seriously. And I've tried them
> all
> over 23 years working with Linux.
> 
> > Just take a look at the kdepim-users mailing list...
> 
> Don't confuse the desktop with the bundled apps.

The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would be
great, but I've never got it to work for me.

> 
> Problems with  the apps? Then don't use them.

I want integration with the overall desktop. 

> 
> It is significant that many distros' KDE versions don't use the KDE
> apps and replace them with Firefox, Thunderbird, LibreOffice, etc.
> Why? Because they are Linux best-of-breed.

I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE can
do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for me. But
using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.


> KDE lost the battle to GNOME 2.
> 
> The GNOME project decided to throw all that goodwill away.

> So I never recommend it.
> 
> Secondly, if you're planning to go from LTS + mature desktop to
> short-term PLUS unstable desktop, you are _not_ going to be pleased
> with the stability of the result.

Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable? Who says that KDE 5 is mature
(except for you)?  WTF?

> > It's a pity, since I think KDE is really good, feature-wise. If it
> > just
> > worked...
> 
> Good for you. I can't stand it myself but that's just me. I want
> vertical taskbars and KDE can't do them well.
> 
> If you want the most stable, slowest-changing, most reliable desktop,
> then try Xfce.

That's good to know...

> It's what I use now that Unity is basically dead.
> 
> And Xfce is the same in LTS and short-term releases so you miss
> nothing.
> 
> And it can be configured to look just like KDE, unlike GNOME 3.
> 
> > I've read somewhere that Gnome is released half-year wise, just
> > like
> > Ubuntu. So (I think), the latest Ubuntu version always contains the
> > latest Gnome version.
> 
> It is an this is why Ubuntu has a 6mth release cycle.
> 
> You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?

No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be tested
and stable.

> > As I've written: I want do switch to Gnome.
> > 
> > I've used Gnome for some week now, and it *just works*.
> 
> I submit you've not had time to feel the pain yet.

This could be.

> 
> > > Are you running a separate /home filesystem?
> > 
> > No.
> > 
> > > 
> > > You should.
> > > 
> > > If you do, you can dual boot them & share a home directory
> > > between
> > > Kubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME.
> > 
> > It's perfectly possible to run Gnome and KDE side-by-side in the
> > same
> > system. That's what I'me doing right now. No dual boot necessary.
> 
> You miss my point.
> 
> You could share it between LTS+KDE and short-
> term+GNOME/Xfce/whatever.

You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-term+Gnome. No
dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on having an 
LTS release.


> > I think I will take the trouble and setup a new, clean Ubuntu
> > 19.04.
> > 
> > What I'm not sure about: Is a KDE version contained in Ubuntu (no
> > "K"),
> > or is it only in Kubuntu? I don't want to give it up completely. At
> > least there are some KDE programs which I want to keep using.
> 
> The Ubuntu repos contain all the desktops used by all the remixes,
> and
> several more which are not the default for any remix.
> 
> > I guess I could use the Kubuntu PPAs in order to get Kubuntu
> > programs
> > in Ubuntu, but is this supported?
> 
> You don't need to. There is only one set of standard Ubuntu repos.
> Everything for all desktops is in there.


> I think your reasoning as discussed here is flawed and I would urge
> you to reconsider. I think you're letting yourself in for a world of
> pain, with more of the problems you say that you want to get away
> from: instability, bugginess, etc.

I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
wondering. I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
in order to get to know Gnome better.

Thanks for your time,
Volker