name resolution

[Liam Proven]

On 25 November 2017 at 09:52, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:
>>
>> Apple was the first company with a mass-market computer with only USB,
>> and propelled USB onto the world stage.
>
>
> I never heard of that.

Yes you did. A little machine called the iMac. Changed the entire IT industry.

Second conclusion: you are not as knowledgeable as you think you are.
Learn to recognise when you are on a subject where others know more
than you do. Then, stop trying to tell those of us who do know more
than you about anything about that thing.

>  From my perspective USB just came about because it
> came about.

Nonsense.

Introduced by Intel in 1995. I first saw shipping hardware from IBM in
mid 1996. It was unsupported by Windows or any other OS at that time.

Windows 95 shipped with no web browser, no TCP installed by default,
not FAT32, and no USB support.

> I saw no anomaly in the pace with which it was introduced that
> would have anything to do with anything I could not see.

Again. You don't know. I do. Others do. It was my job to know about this stuff.

Others know more than you do. Learn this.

Introduced: 1995.
Shipped: 1996.
Win95 OSR2: first OS to support USB, August 1996

> Apple was never big in Europe too. Much bigger in America. Not so much in
> Europe.

Wrong.

I was working for an Apple dealer in 1988. All schools in my country
then switched to Apple Macs in the late 1980s.

Apple was _huge_ here.

Remember, I am European too.

> Sure and it was never very popular except for Apple desktops.

Wrong.

Included as standard by most Japanese laptop vendors. I have owned
both Sony and Toshiba laptops with IEEE1394 as a standard feature. It
was on millions of PCs. Standard support in Windows -- basic from Win
98SE, full from Win ME.

> You mean in a home without a router.

No.

> I really never heard anyone ever laud AppleTalk before.

Again, you don't know as much as you think. How many professional
network architects have you asked? How many of them have been doing it
for 30 years?

> It has also been discontinued and replaced by Bonjour, but apart from that,
> it never seems to have been an issue or lack of Windows computers.

Wrong. Bonjour is a name resolution tool; AppleTalk is a network
protocol. Not even comparable.

OS X included AppleTalk until Leopard, v 10.5.

> Now of course I am only starting to talk from about 1995.

Doesn't matter.

> And Apple existed before that, I know that.

For 20y and shaped the entire PC industry.

> And even while AppleTalk apparently was the de facto standard, or some of
> it, during the 80s, ultimately TCP/IP took over completely and during my
> lifetime, or my conscious lifetime in that sense, has never been a factor of
> importance for anyone I knew.

Not really true. AppleTalk was only ever the Mac standard.

DOS didn't include networking. LAN Manager used NetBEUI. Novell
Netware used IPX/SPX. DEC Pathworks used DECnet. Many many more.

> I also dislike, as I have said "automatic configuration" and the article you
> linked as to why kids can't use computers plays into this completely.

Well you are the one complaining because you broke your
automatic-configuration system and seem to think it's unfair.

> So you currently laud it as beneficial but the article lauds it as
> detrimental.

WTF?

> Not having to configure stuff is not a good thing in the sense of also
> having no _control_ over it.

You are contradicting yourself. You _praised_ the lack of  config in
NetBIOS networks in the message I was replying to.

> The TCP/IP issues never stopped the Internet from becoming popular, or home
> networking for that matter, for the Windows world.

The Internet _is_ TCI/IP. It compelled everyone to support it.

> SMB/CIFS solved the issue on the file share level completely.

Only for Windows.

> Games used their own broadcasting system (or IPX) to find other players "in
> the same room".

Incoherent, technically laughable.

> So while you laud success here, AppleTalk has not had a huge impact directly
> during the 90s on my personal life as far as I knew.

Because, as you have said, you were not a Mac user.

It appears from your last few lines that you still do not understand
what AppleTalk *is*. Go read the Wikipedia page.

You are trying to argue about stuff when you do not even know what the
words you are using *mean*.

> Of course Apple is a pioneer. That doesn't make everything they do good.

Never said it was.

> Yes people did not have names for IP addresses if they wanted to do more.

What?

> Routers could have done that a long time ago if there was a need for it.
>
> They haven't.

Yes they did, but you don't understand how it works.

> So you name at least 2 things, USB and Firewire, that were either not really
> Apple's achievement or not very popular elsewhere.

You do not understand.

They are examples of Apple adopting existing external standards which
they did not invent and making them widespread across the IT business.

> AppleTalk was also never felt as a necessity and lost way to TCP/IP.

So?

> That didn't have those features yet was still superior.

Never said that.

> If it was so important, why didn't the rest of the world adopt it?

They had their own protocols, but you do not seem to understand what
the phrase "network protocol" means.

> You mention sudo. I can find no history about it. It has existed since 1980.

And nobody used it as standard before that.

> Windows users never felt a need for Bonjour.

As I said, MS has its own system which MS is pushing.

>> So in 2000, two Bills, Manning and Woodcock, defined a name service
>> that would work for serverless networks
>
>
> which don't exist.

I gave the link. It's adopted across the entire Unix world. What do
you mean it doesn't exist?

>> It is _needed_. Before this, different machines with self-assigned
>> network addresses could not find each other by name.
>
>
> Nonsense.

You do not know what you are talking about, and you are attempting to
argue with a trained network professional working on large
mission-critical systems since the 1980s.

Do you have any clue how foolish this makes you look?

[[Utter clueless nonsense snipped]]

> Explain to me why mdns needs to block .local from getting out.

You very obviously do not understand enough about networking to even
understand if I did explain in more detail than I already have.

> You don't think all of these resolutions would get cached?

*Facepalm*

Is there any way to convince you that you don't know what you're
talking about? Or should I just save the effort and killfile you now?

[[More clueless and totally wrong-headed ranting snipped]]
>> NetBIOS needs name resolution over TCP/IP v4
>
>
> No it doesn't.
>
> Or at least it doesn't require DNS if that is what you mean.

Yes it does. I DO THIS FOR A LIVING. I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.

[[More nonsense snipped]]

> I must say I don't explicitly remember filesharing in Windows 95.

Well hi, I am Liam, I am a professional network architect and system
administrator. I rolled out a department-wide upgrade to Windows 95 in
1995, ensuring that it worked with my existing NT 3.51 and Netware 4
fileservers and the company Mac network as well.

I also designed, built and ran the in-house email system and later
installed the company Internet gateway.

In 1995 and 1996.

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. IT IS MY LIVING. YOU ARE
TRYING TO TELL ME MY JOB.

[[More irrelevant nonsense trimmed]]




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