Ralf Mardorf silver.bullet at
Sun Dec 3 08:12:17 UTC 2017

On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 08:47:49 +0100, Xen wrote:
>Ralf Mardorf schreef op 03-12-2017 8:19:
>> Perhaps we could shorten this discord and simply agree that the shred
>> manpage "shouts" (written by capital letters) "CAUTION".  
>More partial citing.
>Ralf, why don't you just stop the intentional misinforming?
>"In the case of ext3 file systems, the above disclaimer applies (and 
>shred is thus of limited effectiveness) only in data=journal mode,
>which journals file data in addition to just metadata. In both the 
>data=ordered (default) and data=writeback modes, shred works as usual."
>Of course there is a reason for caution, but this applies to
>filesystems in general.
>And yes, it needs to be said that "sfill" is a required companion.
>However, consciously misinforming people by explicitly, expressly and 
>intentionally misciting information.
>Is just not okay.
>The manpage itself is also written in a way that induces unnecessary 
>fear, because all of the examples it cites are not in common use or
>not relevant to the average person.
>* RAID based redundancy?
>* snapshots?
>* NFS 3 caches?
>* compressed file systems?
>* backups?
>It is pretty clear that to a regular Ubuntu user working on a local 
>shred works just fine, with the addendum that some editors may create 
>multiple left-over copies on disk and you also need to use "sfill" 
>This is empowering information.
>And yes, you are creating Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
>That's EXACTLY what you're doing!!!!

No, informing about pitfalls is not the same as spreading FUD.

A shred kind of security is only granted if you shred the hardware. This
not only applies to deleted data, but also regarding other security and
privacy issues, e.g. TOR mentions that it is not that safe to use TOR
with your own hardware, using your own ISP, as using stolen

"Doesn't Tor enable criminals to do bad things?

Criminals can already do bad things. Since they're willing to break
laws, they already have lots of options available that provide better
privacy than Tor provides. They can steal cell phones, use them, and
throw them in a ditch! -

It's not FUD, without C-4, elephant guns, throwing stolen hardware in
a ditch, you need to be very, very, very careful.

More information about the ubuntu-users mailing list