PEACE (WAS: update manager refuses to upgrade kernel to newer version)

[Ernest Doub]

On Sat, Feb 13, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Spyros Tsiolis <stsiol at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 13/2/16, Oliver Grawert <ogra at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
>  Subject: Re: update manager refuses to upgrade kernel to newer version
>  To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
>  Date: Saturday, 13 February, 2016, 16:42
>
>  hi,
>  Am
>  Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 18:42 +0100 schrieb Ralf
>  Mardorf:
>  > On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:27:52
>  +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>  > >hi,
>  > >Am Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 17:45
>  +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
>  > >
>  > >> if people won't disable
>  GRUB2's auto-crap.
>  >
>  >
>  > >...as usual you are full of
>  respect for the work of others ...
>  >
>  > I respect the work of others,
>
>  well, lets take a little
>  historical review here ...
>
>  in the very first thread you participated in on
>  this list you wrote:
>  "what's
>  different between Ubuntu and a distro using a clean
>  systemd"
>
>  in this
>  thread you never accepted the fact that there might be
>  reasons
>  why debian and ubuntu package it the
>  way they do or why they leave devs
>  the time
>  to migrate their packages at a slower pace from sysvinit
>  to
>  systemd, you outright called the debian
>  and ubuntu implementations
>  "unclean" without any research or
>  evidence. iirc this thread escalated
>  quite
>  badly already ...
>
>  a month
>  later you claim:
>  "Using a meta-package
>  ... might install a lot of unwanted crap"
>
>  this unwanted "crap"
>  is what makes ubuntu ubuntu, most of the packages
>  in a seed (metapackage) have been discussed
>  countless hours on IRC, in
>  bugs and if the
>  feature that draws them in is big enough even at one of
>  the ubuntu summits [1]. many people put in a
>  lot of work to make such
>  decisions, there
>  are reasons and a lot of work from humans behind the
>  inclusion of every single package in
>  ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard or
>  ubuntu-desktop, believe it or not ...
>
>  then:
>  "When ever I allowed that crappy GRUB
>  automation to waste my time..."
>
>  the grub automation works in the majority of
>  times where people didn't
>  remove the
>  "unwanted crap" but used Ubuntu from a proper
>  install that
>  they didn't cripple. you
>  blame the grub maintainer for not supporting
>  your non-standard setup ...
>
>  a short time later there was a disastrous
>  thread where you wrote:
>  "Why do people
>  who chose freakish distros often ask for help in
>  Ubuntu..."
>  and later in
>  the same thread:
>  "I wasn't thinking
>  about the word "freakish" wich wasn't a
>  personal
>  attack against anybody"
>  right, it was no personal attack but just
>  completely discrediting every
>  person who
>  puts work into creating such a "freakish"
>  distro...
>
>  this thread ended
>  in moderators joining in IIRC ...
>
>  shortly after you attacked one of the ASL
>  upstreams for accidentially
>  sending a
>  package inclusion request to ubuntu users (along with a
>  rant
>  and longish report how "they"
>  ..."hope that somebody will do it for
>  them"... and how "they" were
>  down-voted in arch mailing lists for this)
>
>  a month later there was the
>  thread where you called someone "mentally
>  ill" and suggested he should get
>  psychological help ... this thread
>  again
>  ended in moderators having to join in...
>
>  the next thread had: "In my experiences
>  ClamAV is crap." ...
>  it didn't fit
>  you use case, so you are calling it crap, ignoring that
>  many people have put in many hours of paid or
>  unpaid work to provide it
>  to you.
>
>  about USB drives not
>  auto-mounting:
>  ..."when GVFS is
>  installed. Since it's GNOMEish crap"...
>
>  then, in the recent discussion
>  about bug tracking while talking to a
>  long
>  standing Ubuntu QA person and bugsquad member (who has put
>  in a lot
>  of time to help designing what we
>  have today) you called his work
>  spyware
>  without any evidence or even the will to try the tool once
>  ...
>
>  coming back to the
>  grub2 "auto-crap" ... did you consider that the
>  maintainer is a member of this list (he is) and
>  did you also consider
>  that a bootloader is
>  far more complex than any other software (needs to
>  be self contained, needs to support all
>  available HW, all sorts of boot
>  mechanisms
>  the HW provides, needs to deal with legacy HW, needs to
>  deal
>  with old installations etc etc) ... if
>  the pre-requisites for auto
>  detection
>  aren't given there is not much grub can do about it but
>  to ask
>  the user to fulfill them (i.e.
>  "please mount /dev if it is not"). you
>  claim there is a bug, be assured there
>  isn't one (nontheless feel free
>  to file
>  one to get more official confirmation on the bug tracker if
>  you
>  need).
>
>  if you actually read this far the hour i
>  invested to go through the
>  archive was
>  probably not wasted ... don't get me wrong please, i
>  really
>  admire your technical skills and also
>  your passion when working on
>  solving a
>  problem. i personally often disagree about the way and
>  the
>  extremely low level you attack, but that
>  doesn't matter, you are still
>  often
>  helpful...
>
>  nontheless ...
>  you have not even been on this list for a year and we had
>  more escalated threads in this time than we did
>  in the two years before
>  (i actually cant
>  remember seeing moderators speak up for a very long
>  time) and you have been involved in all of them
>  ...
>
>  Ubuntu isn't just a
>  name of a distro. one part of the often quoted
>  "awesome community help" in Ubuntu
>  results from the fact that people
>  also
>  respect the meaning of the word and realize that there is a
>  human
>  being behind every single line of code
>  that we all are using, please
>  consider that
>  when writing your mails to this list ...
>
>  ... if you visit a friend in real life, do you
>  run around in his house
>  and point out how
>  ugly you find his furniture or his choice of
>  wallpapers all the time and call it
>  "crap" ?
>
>  i bet
>  you don't :)
>
>  ciao
>      oli
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Chaps,
>
> I noticed things got escalated quite a bit during these last days.
> All I would like to say is that you have an excellent list here with
> people trying their
> best to answer questions.
>
> I, for one, know and respect that there's a lot of people behind
> open-source
> projects putting in a lot of man-hours.
> I am also grateful that I can give an alternative to my clients from the
> usual
> products I can "choose" to install to their machines.
> To tell you the truth, I 've ben a linux user for 20 years now and back in
> the
> early days, I could only dream that someday I would be able to give an
> open-source
> solution to a client; A solution that provides the end-user a bloat-free
> and
> virus-free system so that the client / enterprise / organisation can work
> without
> flaws and trouble.
>
> I for one, would like to thank you all on this list AGAIN for all your
> support.
> As far as I can tell (don't know maybe it's the wisdom I've accumulated
> through my years of work) you all have your hearts in the right place.
> There's no need for finger-pointing and being bitter.
>
> Just my opinion chaps.
>
> s.
>
>
> After reading the above commentaries I am reminded of some advice that was
given to me [mumble] decades ago:
If you would prefer that your supervisor not see a remark like this then
don't send it to a colleague.
Since this is a semi-professional list, being for the mutual support of
Ubuntu users by other users both amateur and professional [for which this
user is profoundly grateful] it seems to me that a certain amount of
professional decorum is in order.
That level of decorum has been notably absent from  [throat clear] certain
posters remarks.
A word to the wise should be sufficient.
ED
On the Mojave

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