PEACE (WAS: update manager refuses to upgrade kernel to newer version)

Sat Feb 13 19:41:25 UTC 2016

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On Sat, 13/2/16, Oliver Grawert <ogra at ubuntu.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: update manager refuses to upgrade kernel to newer version
 To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
 Date: Saturday, 13 February, 2016, 16:42

 hi, 
 Am
 Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 18:42 +0100 schrieb Ralf
 Mardorf:
 > On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 18:27:52
 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
 > >hi,
 > >Am Freitag, den 12.02.2016, 17:45
 +0100 schrieb Ralf Mardorf:
 > >
 > >> if people won't disable
 GRUB2's auto-crap.   
 >
 >
 > >...as usual you are full of
 respect for the work of others ...
 > 
 > I respect the work of others, 

 well, lets take a little
 historical review here ... 

 in the very first thread you participated in on
 this list you wrote:
 "what's
 different between Ubuntu and a distro using a clean
 systemd"

 in this
 thread you never accepted the fact that there might be
 reasons
 why debian and ubuntu package it the
 way they do or why they leave devs
 the time
 to migrate their packages at a slower pace from sysvinit
 to
 systemd, you outright called the debian
 and ubuntu implementations
 "unclean" without any research or
 evidence. iirc this thread escalated
 quite
 badly already ...

 a month
 later you claim:
 "Using a meta-package
 ... might install a lot of unwanted crap"

 this unwanted "crap"
 is what makes ubuntu ubuntu, most of the packages
 in a seed (metapackage) have been discussed
 countless hours on IRC, in
 bugs and if the
 feature that draws them in is big enough even at one of
 the ubuntu summits [1]. many people put in a
 lot of work to make such
 decisions, there
 are reasons and a lot of work from humans behind the
 inclusion of every single package in
 ubuntu-minimal, ubuntu-standard or
 ubuntu-desktop, believe it or not ... 

 then:
 "When ever I allowed that crappy GRUB
 automation to waste my time..."

 the grub automation works in the majority of
 times where people didn't
 remove the
 "unwanted crap" but used Ubuntu from a proper
 install that
 they didn't cripple. you
 blame the grub maintainer for not supporting
 your non-standard setup ...

 a short time later there was a disastrous
 thread where you wrote:
 "Why do people
 who chose freakish distros often ask for help in
 Ubuntu..."
 and later in
 the same thread:
 "I wasn't thinking
 about the word "freakish" wich wasn't a
 personal
 attack against anybody"
 right, it was no personal attack but just
 completely discrediting every
 person who
 puts work into creating such a "freakish"
 distro...

 this thread ended
 in moderators joining in IIRC ...

 shortly after you attacked one of the ASL
 upstreams for accidentially
 sending a
 package inclusion request to ubuntu users (along with a
 rant
 and longish report how "they"
 ..."hope that somebody will do it for
 them"... and how "they" were
 down-voted in arch mailing lists for this)

 a month later there was the
 thread where you called someone "mentally
 ill" and suggested he should get
 psychological help ... this thread
 again
 ended in moderators having to join in...

 the next thread had: "In my experiences
 ClamAV is crap." ...
 it didn't fit
 you use case, so you are calling it crap, ignoring that
 many people have put in many hours of paid or
 unpaid work to provide it
 to you.

 about USB drives not
 auto-mounting:
 ..."when GVFS is
 installed. Since it's GNOMEish crap"...

 then, in the recent discussion
 about bug tracking while talking to a
 long
 standing Ubuntu QA person and bugsquad member (who has put
 in a lot
 of time to help designing what we
 have today) you called his work
 spyware
 without any evidence or even the will to try the tool once
 ...

 coming back to the
 grub2 "auto-crap" ... did you consider that the
 maintainer is a member of this list (he is) and
 did you also consider
 that a bootloader is
 far more complex than any other software (needs to
 be self contained, needs to support all
 available HW, all sorts of boot
 mechanisms
 the HW provides, needs to deal with legacy HW, needs to
 deal
 with old installations etc etc) ... if
 the pre-requisites for auto
 detection
 aren't given there is not much grub can do about it but
 to ask
 the user to fulfill them (i.e.
 "please mount /dev if it is not"). you
 claim there is a bug, be assured there
 isn't one (nontheless feel free
 to file
 one to get more official confirmation on the bug tracker if
 you
 need).

 if you actually read this far the hour i
 invested to go through the
 archive was
 probably not wasted ... don't get me wrong please, i
 really
 admire your technical skills and also
 your passion when working on
 solving a
 problem. i personally often disagree about the way and
 the
 extremely low level you attack, but that
 doesn't matter, you are still
 often
 helpful... 

 nontheless ...
 you have not even been on this list for a year and we had
 more escalated threads in this time than we did
 in the two years before
 (i actually cant
 remember seeing moderators speak up for a very long
 time) and you have been involved in all of them
 ...

 Ubuntu isn't just a
 name of a distro. one part of the often quoted
 "awesome community help" in Ubuntu
 results from the fact that people
 also
 respect the meaning of the word and realize that there is a
 human
 being behind every single line of code
 that we all are using, please
 consider that
 when writing your mails to this list ...

 ... if you visit a friend in real life, do you
 run around in his house
 and point out how
 ugly you find his furniture or his choice of
 wallpapers all the time and call it
 "crap" ? 

 i bet
 you don't :)

 ciao
     oli

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Chaps,

I noticed things got escalated quite a bit during these last days.
All I would like to say is that you have an excellent list here with people trying their
best to answer questions.

I, for one, know and respect that there's a lot of people behind open-source
projects putting in a lot of man-hours.
I am also grateful that I can give an alternative to my clients from the usual
products I can "choose" to install to their machines.
To tell you the truth, I 've ben a linux user for 20 years now and back in the
early days, I could only dream that someday I would be able to give an open-source 
solution to a client; A solution that provides the end-user a bloat-free and
virus-free system so that the client / enterprise / organisation can work without
flaws and trouble.

I for one, would like to thank you all on this list AGAIN for all your support.
As far as I can tell (don't know maybe it's the wisdom I've accumulated
through my years of work) you all have your hearts in the right place.
There's no need for finger-pointing and being bitter.

Just my opinion chaps.

s.