hideserted at gmail.com
Fri Sep 30 19:09:55 UTC 2011
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:47 PM, Edward avanti <edward.avanti at gmail.com>wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Ernest Doub <hideserted at gmail.com>wrote:
>> One of the most effective ways to discourage new users and to shut out
>> those looking for viable alternatives to Windo$e is to reduce the ability to
>> obtain assistance during the steep part of the learning curve.
> what rubbish, you would find that google is a great reference for problems,
Some [most] people don't know how to phrase a search to turn up meaningful
a lot of whats here is trolling, no, most of what is here is trolling,
Really? I guess you missed the majority of those posts that are 10 or more
lines of logfiles and the back and forth questions and answers trying to
sort things out, sometimes across linguistic barriers.
> there are many other lists of help, even redhat lists,
Some [most] of the newer users of Ubuntu don't understand the similarities
to the various "flavors" of Linux. They were introduced to Ubuntu and that
is all they know, coming from a Microsoft(tm) environment where there is a
linear progression of software and no breadth.
> afterall its all linux and the same programs are used pretty much on both,
> just diferent installer methods, I found answers to problems with ubuntu
> reading gentoo posts from google.
>> Closing down support avenues because some of the more anally retentive
>> subscribers can't deal with the ~normal~ social interaction indicative of a
>> healthy social organism presents a public perception of a closed shop -
>> outsiders need not apply - you are not wanted or welcome here.
> never hread the saying " if you abuse it, you lose it" ?
Ever heard the expression "No pain, No gain"?
I understand that the bulk of the money to pay for what requires money for
Ubuntu to fly comes from one source. I also understand that the one source
has yet to see a dimes worth of monetary return for his investment. I'm sure
that he is very frustrated with the blowups and temper tantrums that are
Every one of them is another bruise or black eye to the business he is
attempting to develop.
> > If ~you~ can't handle the stress then leave.
> first thing you've said I agree with. I been around since early fidonet
> days on BBS's, you learned to harden up even back then, even in the 90's
> where IRC and usenet ruled (yes for the kids of today, IRC and usenet
> actually had a purpose other than warez) yo learnt even faster to harden up
> I have dealt with technical types across a broad range of disciplines my
>> entire adult life. The most socially retarded have always been those who
>> were most wrapped up in the operation of complex computerized systems where
>> they dealt more with machines than other human beings.
> at work I agree my boss wont let me talk to customers, he thinks its
> punishment think its all my christmases come at once :D
> and outside of work I have plenty great friends socialise with every
> weekend and sometimes during week, so your perception is rather 1980s geek
> V jock 'n all...
> Taking your response as a whole I can understand why your boss doesn't want
you to talk to customers. He's afraid you will break the relationships that
pay the bills.
Which is why you don't even understand what I said. You have not developed
the social skills necessary to deal with the "Joe Lunchbox" class users.
It's the J.L. people who will ultimately determine whether any distribution
of Linux ever receives wide end user distribution in business. It isn't the
IT guys who make these decisions. They make recommendations and ~their~
bosses decide which way the purchasing dollars will be spent. If they can
deploy a system without having to spend large bundles of cash on a recurring
basis for training that is the direction the money flows.
Until there is a large enough user base to drive the name recognition above
the basic perception level that "Linux is a mystery" and "it's too difficult
to learn" then the user base will remain small. Cutting off the resources
to provide assistance when people are trying to "get under the hood" and
actually make something work for them is counter-productive. So is throwing
There have been several suggestions made as to how to divert the
non-technical talk without wrecking this technical mailing list. Until
somebody sets up a list to discuss the issue off this list [thereby solving
the problem] there is no alternative but to put the discussion here. Unless
you consider shutting the list down completely a viable solution?
>> Be advised that I am a cranky old man who has suffered a disabling injury
>> and has lots of time available to pull
> I couldnt care about that, I treat everyone the same regardless of age,
> race, sex, sexual orientation, religion or "community status",
>> your chain, and a lifetime of experience at making people loose their cool
>> - it is usually quite entertaining and occasionally instructive.
> then by your own admission you are here soley to piss people off, there are
> plenty around here who will give you a run for your money and some, sdadly a
> few good ones were kicked off th list last year.
> Once again your mis-perception misses the target. Or are you just
> attempting to cause me to loose my own cool?
I note that you have taken a lot of time to respond to this thread. I don't
see your name nearly so often as a responder to the technical questions.
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<http://linuxcounter.net/cert/544489.png>Accidental deaths by firearms
account for less than 1% of the 30,000. There are three times as many
medical mistake deaths in the US than there are accidental gun deaths.
Perhaps we need safety locks on doctors and nurses?
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