get rid of OT

[rikona]

Hello Pastor,

Thursday, September 29, 2011, 10:03:50 AM, Pastor wrote:

> On Thursday, September 29, 2011 8:20:41 am rikona wrote:
>> Another approach might be more fruitful. It is evident that there
>> are a number of people who really like to post OT stuff. Trying to
>> silence these people by moderation is, as we can already see,
>> fraught with problems. Giving them a good place to post OT material
>> might solve a lot of the problem.

> Giving someone something for misbehaving just gets you more
> misbehaving people.

Agreed. The aim is to get them misbehaving somewhere else.

> It is like throwing money at a problem, all you really do is make
> the problem larger. It has to grow large enough to use all the money
> thrown at it. 

Yes - we have lots of experience with that problem in the US :-). But
that's very much OT, so no more on this list.

> Had you have starved the problem it would have gone away pretty much
> on its own. Best bet is just not to feed the problem.

Experience has shown that that does not work. Let's try something
different.

>> 
>> What they need is an easy-as-possible alternative mailing list. The
>> bikeshed forum alternative is NOT good - javascript, ads, and way
>> too much other googleness. I am amazed that, with all the tech
>> folks here, SOMEONE could not start a 'real' mailing list something
>> like UB-OT, or if it needs more obfuscation, UBOT.

> There was one once, it was just totally ruined by it users to the
> point it was shut down. That is also a real danger here in this
> list.

Agreed.

> There are people who work and I mean work hard at trying to destroy
> this list like they did the sounder one. Too bad they don't put as
> much effort into something constructive but that seems not an option
> for any of the world's vandals.

Yep.

>> When that is set up and running, each email in need of moderation
>> would give the suggestion to move it to the OT **mailing** list [not
>> forum], and include the subscribe info. At that point, any
>> continuation could be moderated, since there is a *good* alternative.
>> 
>> Is there NOBODY here willing to set up such a 'real' mailing list? I
>> would think that with all the technical capabilities here, we would
>> already have such a MAILING LIST.

> Because it costs money, time, and effort and you already see the
> reward for it is whining people who actually go out of their way to
> see how may rules they can break.

I'd suspect that a completely unrestricted list might be less trouble
to maintain - no moderation at all. It will likely get VERY ugly, very
fast, but that is often a self limiting process.

>> This was done for Mandrake and worked very well. Why not here? This
>> issue keeps coming up over, and over, and over...

> Yes it does because people ALWAYS feed the trolls.

Because right now, there is no good alternative [maybe], and people
don't redirect folks to someplace else. If we do use moderation, which
seems inevitable, the moderation could shift traffic to an actual OT
list. Might be worth a try, and is MUCH better than getting this quite
useful list shut down.

-- 

 rikona