Community Council, please take action!

Res res at
Wed Jan 6 22:50:01 UTC 2010

On Wed, 6 Jan 2010, Alan Pope wrote:

> Now, here's the tricky thing. We don't have specific rules for this
> list. We have the mailing list etiquette page and the code of conduct
> which in and of themselves are sufficient in my mind to guide users of
> this list into a way of working that is respectful of others. That

Which doesn't work for those who don't use the web to subscribe, perhaps 
the Welcome Email to the list needs heavy modification to make these stand 

> goes for people causing issues, and people constantly badgering others
> for transgressing rules as well - "list nazis" as you call them. The
> irritation of having people shouting their mouth off is comparable to
> having someone constantly replying to threads telling people not to
> top post.

Correct, but change is never brought about by someone who is a quiet as a 

> That's not the case. The facts are:-
> * We have no official moderators who currently read and analyse each
> mail and act on breaches of the list guidelines


> * It has had no overall moderation for basically ever

I know and this is where and why it has got to where we are today, had 
their been moderators enforcing rules and ensuring that they were the only 
ones doing the moderators, none of this would have occurred, non of my 
berating of the berater's would ever have been needed.

> * The list has evolved into what it is today, with the people self-policing

Selectively self policing, that's the problem, many of them  attack top 
posters but yet never trim their posts, what makes them any better that 
they feel they can do that.

> * Some people self-police better than others

Agreed, some have been very polite in their requests

> * Some people don't like being policed

Agreed, especially by hypocrites.

> * Some people didn't read any guidelines (mailing list etiquette, Code
> of Conduct) before they signed up, so feel they should not be bound by
> them

That's also agreed in part, etiquette is in general for all lists, but the 
CoC imposes additional, and you can not rightfully enforce that upon 
someone who did not read them, such as myself because I'm sure at least 
50% of members here also subbed directly via mailman's email interface.
Had the welcome email clearly and boldly stated you are subject to CoC 
(URL) if you disagree with this and another rules please unsubscribe now

> So that's where we are, what do we do?
> It was discussed recently by the CC and we came to the conclusion that
> we should look for interested people on this list to become moderators
> who could help bring the list back to where it should be.. "Ubuntu

Exactly, official moderators are the only ones who have a right to "chip" 
someone about not posting correctly, that's always been my stand, once you 
appoint them and make it known the moderating and enforcements are done 
only be these moderators, the issue goes away, because unless you are an 
official moderator everyone else is plain equal, therefor has no right to
tell another person how they should type.

> IRC come to mind) so there's no reason it shouldn't happen here, and
> no surprises to anyone that it might be implemented.

This is what all my "shouting" has been about, so it has paid off to be 
noisy and even "trollish" according to some. I am satisfied that this 
change will make this list a better place, especially for the newbies.

> For what it's worth, I completely agree with you that any kind of
> implementation of "The Rules" (how ever you interpret that) should be
> applied fairly to all concerned. That's what happens on the forums and
> IRC and I see no reason for it not to be the case here. However right
> now, this minute, we don't have moderators and we don't have specific
> process for dealing with people who breach the rules for this list.

This is why I now applaud your move to empower some, now I know you are 
taking steps to reign in the net-cops as well as people like myself, then 
my work here could be considered done and I should have no further need 
to bully the bullies. I may shortly even remove myself from this list to 
assist in the peace keeping, feeling better I helped,even if only in a 
small way, to bring about change for the better.


"What does Windows have that Linux doesn't?" - One hell of a lot of bugs!

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