[OT] Printers - was Re: Should I add this Repo?

Tue Oct 28 01:05:52 UTC 2008

Thanks, NoOp. Didn't think it would be so hard to put in a plug for Brother. Your note about Mario and Derek being correct is noted.

Leonard Chatagnier
lenc5570 at sbcglobal.net

--- On Mon, 10/27/08, NoOp <glgxg at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: NoOp <glgxg at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [OT] Printers - was Re: Should I add this Repo?
> To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 7:10 PM
> On 10/27/2008 12:42 PM, Leonard Chatagnier wrote:
> > --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Derek Broughton
> <news at pointerstop.ca> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Derek Broughton <news at pointerstop.ca>
> Subject: Re: Should I
> >> add this Repo? To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Date: Monday,
> >> October 27, 2008, 1:41 PM Leonard Chatagnier
> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Brother reqauires you to use the --force
> option in
> >> order to install their
> >>> printer drivers on Linux/Ubuntu. They have the
> best
> >> Linux/Ubuntu support
> >>> and I don't think they would tell you to
> do
> >> something that would break
> >>> anything.
> >> 
> >> Well, they would...  There's _many_ force
> options, but what they
> >> all have in common is the fact that using them is
> guaranteed to
> >> break something.  You just have to hope you're
> never going to need
> >> whatever has been broken. The most likely reason
> why you would need
> >> to use a "force" option in a third-party
> package is because it's
> >> trying to install a file that is already provided
> in another
> >> package - and there _are_ ways to get around that,
> but using
> >> --force-overwrite is simple (and lazy).
> >> 
> >> 
> > Hello Derek,
> > 
> > If something gets broken on   my Hardy 64 bit,
> I'll let you and the
> > list know. Don't know where you came up with
> --force-overwrite. My
> > posts mentioned --force-architecture and I explained
> why it was
> > needed. What do you Ubuntu gurus have against Brother
> and there great
> > support for both Linux and Ubuntu of am I missing
> something. I still
> > think Brother has great Linux/Ubuntu support and thank
> NoOp for
> > calling it to my attention when my Epson MFP failed.
> Hey, NoOp, where
> > are you?
> 
> I wasn't looking to add any repos so wasn't paying
> any attention to the
> thread overall.
> 
> Mario & Derek are correct in that Brother should simply
> fix the issue so
> that sudo dpkg -i --force-all --force-architecture (driver
> file name)
> isn't required
> (http://solutions.brother.com/linux/sol/printer/linux/linux_faq-2.html#143)
> 
> I reckon that a few well placed comments to their support
> department
> will/can fix that.
> 
> That said, I agree very much with Leonard regarding Brother
> & their
> linux support; IMO overall Brother are outstanding in
> providing linux
> support in that:
> 
> 1) they actually _do_ have working linux support staff -
> who appear to
> actually test their products on Ubuntu,
> 
> 2) they _do_ respond to linux support questions quickly
> (try to get an
> Ubuntu specific question back from HP within 24 hours - or
> any answer
> back from Canon or Epson), and
> 
> 3) like any printer manufacturer they have to grapple with
> Windows,
> linux, ,Mac, and and shifting/changing
> distributions/updates to all of
> those.
> 
> Anyone can look at the launchpad or linuxfoundation.org
> databases and
> easily find "paperweight" printers, even with HP.
> Overall Brother seems
> to do quite well for the printers that they make:
> 
> http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Brother
> http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=HP
> 
> (Yes I know the HP ratio is smaller, but then again look at
> the number
> of HP printers are listed (many of which are legacy) and
> the other
> columns as well)
> 
> Printers are a difficult beast to work with regardless of
> the OS. The
> fact of the matter is that the bulk of the drivers are
> written for
> Windows, multifunction features (scanning, copying, faxing
> et al) add
> complexity, and of course interfaces for each offer their
> own challenges.
>   Then of course you have printer manufacturers that build
> low cost
> printers that are sold (or given away in system bundles)
> only for the
> profit that their ink consumption will bring; Epson is a
> prime example
> of this - their products are designed for EOL after about 1
> 1/2 years
> (yes I can provide links) and fail to print black if even
> one of their
> ink cartridges is out of ink.
>   I did an inkjet Total Cost of Ownership comparison for a
> customer a
> few years back and the end result was that the customer
> ended up tossing
> all of their HP printers. Not only was the cost of the HP
> ink exorbitant
> when compared to Canon's that I selected (not a linux
> friendly printer
> at all by the way - this was a Windows shop), but the paper
> savings
> alone that had previously been spent on the paper that the
> HP screwed up
> on each print job paid for the new printers in six months.
> The ink
> savings alone paid for the new printers in three months.
> BTW: this was
> over three years ago & the printers are still working
> just fine, plus
> the cost of the ink for those printers has gone down vs the
> HP ink which
> has increased.
> 
> Bottom line is that I think that one can argue all day long
> about
> printers, linux printer support, and whatever, but viewing
> the lists,
> launchpad, openprinting.org, google et al reveals that
> printer aren't an
> easy beast to tame. Given that Brother _do_ produce high
> quality
> printers (in Leonard's case his has USB, wireless, and
> ethernet on a
> well priced multifunction) and _do_ actually actively
> support linux and
> quickly respond to questions re linux, Brother will
> certainly be on my
> list of printers next to buy.
> 
> Disclaimer: I set up a Brother multifunction printer on my
> son's Ubuntu
> last Christmas; at first I found some of the setup issues
> confusing (see
> the archives), but after figuring them out & installing
> I've received
> _zero_ requests for support since. This is in a household
> whereby my
> daughter-in-law uses Ubuntu as the primary system and
> Brother printer
> every day for her in-house & online business. I reckon
> if Ubuntu and
> Brother (print, scan, copy) can hold up to everyday in this
> type of
> environment (mom, kids, online business, no complaints)
> then both get my
> vote. On the otherhand, my brother with a WinXPHome &
> an HP MF printer
> calls me every few weeks regarding both his OS and his
> printer...
> 
> 
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