Forget Hardy

[Bart Silverstrim]

Oliver Grawert wrote:
> hi,
> Am Mittwoch, den 11.06.2008, 09:54 -0400 schrieb Bart Silverstrim:
>> And of course they don't want to actually learn about the topic? No 
>> no...we must always assume that we need to act as unpaid consultants for 
>> that users whims because they need to get a specific task "done" right 
>> now? Isn't that what paid support people are for?
> wel, you are free to not answer and give someone else the opportunity if
> it annoys you enough that you just want to throw a manual at them :)

Um...just to be clear...I don't remember ever doing that. I was simply 
pointing out a possible reason for it...yeah?

>> You're making it sound like education and willingness to learn are bad 
>> things that should be avoided. I shudder at the "newbie" asking, without 
>> any jargon, how to set up a mail server with zilch knowledge of how to 
>> even install the operating system and zilch patience to learn what 
>> they're doing. They're usually the first ones to spout off about how 
>> terrible it is in the process despite their ignorance.
> well, they usually want to get the task done and are stuck, if the task
> is harder on ubuntu than on windows i would say we need to improve
> here ... such feedback is good and valuable for us developers to make
> the software more user friendly ... and yes, i'd love to be able to have
> a mailserver set up with five mouseclicks in ubuntu ...

No no no!  The problem is that it IS possible to set up a relatively 
simple email server. It "works". It works "well enough for me". The 
problem? Even though it looks like it works, it's *wrong*. Most common 
example - mail relaying. I don't get it...what do you mean, "open relay?"

That's the kind of things educating people combats! It's the reason we 
have so much spam out there (What do you mean, don't hit reply? Hang 
on...I can get free nude pictures of <insert latest pop sensation>!)

People have a wonderfully lovely self-centeredness to their thinking. 
Their computer on the Internet is part of a network, meaning their 
laziness *can* have repercussions on other people, with or without their 
knowledge.

*sigh*...sorry. I've just seen this happen in my line way way too many 
times.

>> This is a service, advice from this list and war stories shared. And 
>> most of the people have advice to give because they went through this 
>> stuff themselves. They impart this onto others so the user doesn't need 
>> to ask the question again.
> well, but there are new users on a daily base, do you expect them to be
> up to speed right away ? 

Honestly, I don't know what posts you're referring to here, since I've 
not seen people on this list start out telling someone they're a 
jacktard whose questions deserve to be preserved in a basement of jellies.

I'd expect users here to point said noob to a site that can help them if 
they sit and read it.

>> You're talking about the spirit of Ubuntu. The spirit of Ubuntu doesn't 
>> include encouraging ignorance and reliance on others. It means sharing 
>> information and learning to make you a better person for the experience.
>>
> but also to get this information across in a respectful human way ...

Dammit, there goes my brainworms idea. Respectful, but not quite human.

Would it be fair to say you just want people to be nice in answering 
questions unless provoked?  good summary, yeah? No?

Again...I really don't think the concerns you're voicing are really 
common on this list, but maybe I'm missing something. I'm not really 
here to pick a fight with you :-)