[Dapper] Mouse

[Mario Vukelic]

On Wed, 2006-03-15 at 11:03 -0400, Derek Broughton wrote:
> Mario Vukelic wrote:
> > This is a serious problem on the mailing list IMO: advanced users
> > pulling some long-outdated or unnecessary trick

> In the first place, that sort of thing is because we _are_ advanced users. 
> We've been using these systems for so long that we got used to doing things
> the hard way, and we often learn the newer, shorter, methods on lists like
> this from newbies.

I know that, having used GNU/Linux since when kernel 1.3.78 was the
newest development kernel (which I promptly needed to get some driver).
And further down in my mail I acknowledged that I have done that
myself. 
But nowadays if a newbie asked something I don't know, or only know to
do in bash, I try to shut up (after all, as you said, we often learn new
ways that way)

> Well, no.  I love GUIs, and - except for this particular example - I almost
> always use a GUI instead of a command line for my own work.  However, it is
> _extremely_ difficult on a text-only forum to describe unambiguously how to
> use a GUI.  There is no way I'm going to walk through the steps to tell
> someone how to install a package with Synaptic (assuming that they _have_
> synaptic - we _can't_ assume that) when I can give them, simply, the exact
> commands required to install with apt-get - which we _can_ assume they
> have. 

You are definitely right in saying that this is a strength of text
interfaces. I sometimes have to support users in my company, and being
constrained to the windows GUI, the only thing keeping me sane is
Netmeeting.

However, I don't think you are correct in this particular case, and many
others. "On the top toolbar, click Applications > Add/Remove, then look
for the app and check it" surely isn't harder to describe as "On the top
toolbar, click Applications > Accessories > Terminal. Type "apt-get
update && apt-get install someapp", then press enter.", especially when
the user has no idea about cmd lines (and yes, I have trained several
people on the cmd line). 

And if they are newbies, why can't you rely on Synaptic being there? On
a newly installed system it is there and to remove it, they would have
to know how to use either apt-get/aptitude or Synaptic already, so why
would they ask?

Ubuntu hides the cmd line pretty well, and it has a reason. Otherwise
everyone could have used Debian anyway.

> I will continue to preferentially suggest command line options where I know
> solutions exist using a GUI or CLI, because it _is_ simpler on a mailing
> list.

And you are certainly welcome to do that :) I myself however will try to
gauge the user's level, and try to give the answer that I think will
give the most benefit. That can be the cmd line in many cases, but in
basic newbie cases, it will be the GUI because it is like teaching them
how to fish instead of giving them one.

Kind regards,
Mario