Solution for OEMs/Gnome

[Murray Cumming]

On Fri, 2006-04-14 at 14:53 +0200, email.listen at googlemail.com wrote:
> > But you are still not saying what you need it to do. This is
> > frustrating. Telling us X times that something is crap and that
> > something else is better is not helpful unless you tell us what you need
> > it to do.
> If you carefully read my last mail again you will find a sentence: "Have a 
> closer look to Novell Zenworks and you can see what is state of the art 
> since years and years."
> So why don't you just have a look and you will see why most companies see 
> tools like Sabayon and others only as a feasibility study not as a product 
> which is known and present for other OS'es.
[snip]
> > I'll take this to the GNOME developers. Could you help me by telling me
> > exactly where to find this functionality in kiosktool, for comparison?
> 
> Again, have a look to what I wrote: "It is far away from what KDE Kiosktool 
> offers and both are far away what other operating systems offer."

You are just repeating that something is better than something else
without the details. I am asking you to be specific. As someone who
seems to have experience of these other tools, you seem like the obvious
person to ask. Even if I had ZenWorks, it would be very useful to know
what you like about it. If you are not interested in helping them why
are you even replying?

This is how things improve, not by insulting people or telling people to
just do it. Specific requirements are needed and specific requirements
can be satisified. 

And people are not just going to copy button-for-button whatever tool
you like most. We want to do things properly, so we need to know what
needs are actually met by these tools. Ideally, that would be a series
of use cases, describing what an administrator needs to achieve, and how
it benefits his users, rather than talking in terms of tools for
specific technologies.

But I'll try to communicate this upstream anyway.

> I'm comparing what GNU/Linux tools offer to other tools on other OS'es since 
> years. I don't care the KDE versus Gnome frills and furbelows both prjects 
> are known for if it comes to the other project.
> 
> Both KDE and Gnome are known for their conceitedness, eg. Frerich Rabe who 
> writes as a comment on Golem that KDE is offering what Gnome is thinking 
> about (as a comment to sabayon), or some Gnome people who did this stupid 
> comparison of both projects user friendliness using the pictures of remote 
> controlls.
>
> Exactly the later, a comparison of the complexity of desktop configuration 
> using remote controlls, is a good example of both KDE and Gnome wearing 
> blinders. 

This is both irrelevant, and once again, insulting. This behaviour is
not acceptable and not constructive. If this continues I will not
continue any further communication with you. I have no incentive to
tolerate it.

[snip]

> Murray don't misunderstand my postings. 
> My intention is neither to flame you and Gnome nor KDE.
> I'm saying this bare of diplomathy because I know of your deep Gnome 
> involvement. And also because I'm very disapointed how few Linux developer 
> know what is state of the art in other operation systems.

Communication is key.

> I can see very promising attempts. e.g. eiciel (Roger Ferrer Ibáñez has done a 
> good job here) because of its modular implementation in Nautilus as as a 
> standalone application.

I think this has been integrated with Nautilus now, or soon will be.

>  There are a lot more administrative tasks which could 
> be included in existing tools and environements. 
> You would have an idea of what I'm talking if you would have a wider horizon 
> of what is offered in other OS'es. The administration of directory services 
> is a good example for this. If you have a look how ease the allday 
> administration jobs of NDS and AD are done in Netware and Windows iot is a 
> shame how this has to be done for LDAP in GNU/Linux systems. In the moment 
> tools offered by Novell for their directory services are much better doing 
> LDAP administration than all GNU/Linux tools do.
> IMO a tool like consoleOne by Novell was damned good for directory service 
> _and_ ACL administration, and this more than five years ago. And in complex 
> structures this has to be done in one place, not by two standalone tools as 
> it would be done in GNU/Linux. So eiciel is a first step in this direction, 
> what is missing is a module for directory services administration.

In case German is your first language, I would be willing to help you to
translate a more detailed comparison or summary of these "Other OSs".

-- 
Murray Cumming
murrayc at murrayc.com
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com