Breezy upgrade question

Derek Broughton news at
Mon Oct 17 15:20:38 UTC 2005

Eamonn Sullivan wrote:

> On 15/10/05, Derek Broughton <news at> wrote:
>> Eamonn Sullivan wrote:
>> > No. You *will* have problems if you try installing without these basic
>> > packages. Why not install them, upgrade and then switch back to Exim
>> > and Abiword?
>> Ye Gods!  They are NOT basic.  OO provides absolutely _no_ functionality
>> required by anything else (I use it and love it, but it is certainly no
>> requirement for Ubuntu).  And imo, Postfix is serious overkill for the
>> typical ubuntu user.  I use Masqmail.  imo, ubuntu-desktop should
>> _recommend_ postfix but _require_ mail-transport-agent.
> Yes, I understand that, but these are basic parts of Ubuntu. I believe
> the developers are working on some more granularity with the packages,
> but essentially what you are doing is running your own distro, using
> Ubuntu as a starting point. That's fine -- I'm all for it -- but if
> you want to piggy-back your distro on Ubuntu, you need to at least be
> running it when you do a dist-upgrade. No big deal: Temporarily
> pretend you want to run Ubuntu, install ubuntu-desktop, upgrade, then
> customize.

I still completely disagree.  In the first place (and I've been meaning to
file a bug about this), the package description for the *ubuntu-desktop
packages says that you're welcome to remove the meta-package.  I already
had an Xorg bug marked "Won't Fix" because causing the problem required
removing ubuntu-desktop, but that means either the *-desktop packages need
fixing or the xorg bug is genuine.

Secondly, these are _still_ not basic parts of ubuntu.  Ubuntu _requires_ an
MTA.  It does NOT require either OO or postfix - except in the dependencies
for supposedly non-mandatory metapackages.
> If Abiword is removed in the process, you don't lose any of your
> settings. Once up and running, reinstall abiword and off you go... I'm
> having a hard time understanding why people get a bit upset by this.
> Run a distro that uses just abiword then.

I don't get upset at the upgrade process - I removed kubuntu-desktop and
keep upgrading easily.  I get upset at the mentality that says you have to
play the game by my rules, using my ball and wearing team uniforms.  That's
_not_ the Linux way - and it clearly isn't the way envisioned by the
*ubuntu-desktop developers.

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