No subject
Wed Nov 18 13:36:23 GMT 2009
this big push for a state level team. A couple of the regional groups were
not interested and I'm thinking this may be were the "feeling of being left
out / bypassed" is coming from. Maybe? I don't know, but that would be my
impression. If someone says that they're not interested, I would guess that
they weren't interested.
Something that keeps being mentioned (and was mentioned two years ago when
these same conversations took place) is "I don't see the benefit of a state
loco over a regional loco". I'm probably backwards, but I've been trying to
see the benefit of a regional loco over a state loco. There's already a
well established Linux User Group nearby where I live and I don't see where
starting Yet Another Regional LoCo out here would benefit anyone. I'm one
of the ones where all of my LoCo involvement would continue to be with the
Texas LoCo Team, and all of my regional Linux stuff would be with my
friendly neighborhood LUG. I wouldn't encourage a regional LoCo out here,
but I also wouldn't discourage one. If someone wanted to start one out
here, that's fine, but my focus would still be towards the state group.
Again, it sounds like I may be in the minority. And I'm okay with that :-)
I'm glad that we're getting some good discussion in one place, out in the
open. I encourage everyone, including those that would consider themselves
self-proclaimed "lurkers" to contribute their thoughts. I see conversations
on IRC getting better at directing people to move some discussions to this
mailing list. I'm similar to Lee in that I keep up with the list more than
I do with most of the other channels. I'm also on IRC and IM most of the
day, too.
Cheers,
Jeremy
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 4:52 PM, JJNova <jjnova at gamecootie.com> wrote:
> The benefits to a Texas Team are so minimal, that the reasoning behind
> actually forming an "official" team seems arbitrary at best. I'm right
> there with you Lee, as we were an official team until the Community
> board was formed, and we were told that all benefits, kits, and pressed
> discs would no longer be coming our direction. Dallas used to work
> closely with all of the teams in Texas, and created the Texas Team wiki
> page with the intent of ensuring smooth transitioning for new users.
>
> Dallas Team, as well as Houston, have been Ubuntu fans before Ubuntu was
> popular. We were the groups that hosted Software Freedom Day events. We
> were the groups that were out there handing out discs and giving
> presentations. As our teams grew, and more popped up, we tried to make
> it a purpose to help these smaller teams, and that is what I see as the
> biggest benefit to being a "Texas Team", or more precisely, a joint
> effort of local teams to maintain a smooth sense of community for those
> in our areas.
>
> It seems to me that the idea of community has changed from being a local
> area, to being part of the "Ubuntu Community". Whereas over the years we
> have seen community to be a friendly, local group of people working
> together to help the "village", or our immediate area. Now, it appears
> "community' has become a nicer way to say "part of the mob". The push
> appears, to me, to be for the sole purpose of appeasing or joining the
> bigger mob. The Ubuntu Community.
>
> Keep in mind, that even though we have been pushing for an open source,
> free, and community driven experience for years, those paving the way to
> form an official Texas Team aren't a part of any established group as it
> is. Having nominated their own to be team contact, as well as push for a
> formation that bypassed our already established teams. From my laymen
> eye, it appears there is a big circle jerk that we weren't invited to. I
> suppose everyone has someone to appease. Whereas we have focused on our
> communities for years, other are focused on The Community.
>
> I, personally, would love to see this energy spent on forming more local
> teams. There has been talk of forming a Central Texas team, and I plan
> to drive out that direction to sit in on their meetings, providing as
> much help as I can. Daniel Stone was talking last month about forming a
> team in the Burleson / Ft. Worth area, which I would really have loved
> see happen (DallasTeam is unable to appease to the entire metroplex). I
> was also hoping to drive out that way and help where possible.
> Unfortunately, he has shifted his focus on forming Texas Team.
>
> I guess I would just like to see more local teams. Teams that can do
> more good, and shift their styles based on their locale and the
> personalities of people that live in their region. For instance, if you
> live in a College town, your technique and lifestyle would be different
> than if your community was strictly suburbia. I much prefer a central
> place for us to stay in touch (like this mailing) and a place to point
> people in the right direction (like the wiki) than a "team" that will
> have slight control over the direction of the state. However minimal
> that is. I really don't want to see local teams compete for kits, since
> only the official Texas Team would receive them and pass them out as
> they see fit. I would hate to willingly put a wedge between Texas
> communities.
>
> -JJ
>
> Lee Sharp wrote:
> > I have been quiet for the last few posts, but feel a need to respond.
> > Please keep in mind that I am responding to things as I understand them.
> > I believe (and hope) that the message I received is not the one people
> > intended to send!
> >
> > Daniel Stone wrote:
> >
> > > The idea of an umbrella team is what I thought we were attempting to
> > > achieve. Many areas have existing teams and they should not get
> > > discounted in any way.
> > >
> > > In my understanding the concept of a TexasTeam was more for guiding
> the
> > > end user to resources (hopefully nearby them) and building
> communication
> > > between existing teams to help the state as a whole.
> >
> > This is what I thought as well. I support this concept. However, I
> > have reservations about what I am seeing in practice.
> >
> > > The term hierarchy really should be left out of the equation because
> in
> > > concept a hierarchy gives the basic feel of one being greater or less
> > > than another.
> >
> > Not to mention some hard feelings from when long established LoCos were
> > "Told" we could not be official since we did not encompass the state.
> > This still genders some bad will from a few of us.
> >
> > > To have to remember mail tags seems a little extreme. Setting even
> more
> > > rules for the new user. Not to discard that discussion but if someone
> > > wants to join the list we should be available and have answers if they
> > > indeed write the list. Having the tag system to start would have the
> new
> > > and unknowing confused why they could not get a reply.
> >
> > In Houston we have a list, a Wiki, a FaceBook, and a Myspace. Frankly,
> > I keep up with the list, occasionally remember to update the Wiki, and
> > skip the rest. Now you (not really you singular, but "you" plural in
> > the purely planning stages) want to funnel all of our stuff that we
> > already have in place, and that works, through yet another system? I
> > think I will pass...
> >
> > (Note that this is my initial impression, not what the LoCo of Houston
> > has decided... Just giving you a feeling for how some of these messages
> > have been received down here, by at least one of us.)
> >
> > > Whatever you choose to call them TNT's, LoCo's, LUG's, or Regions they
> > > support members of a like area. The TexasTeam LoCo is just the same.
> > > TexasTeam is for the state and is here to help the end user find a
> > > resource.
> >
> > Ditto. We call ourselves the Ubuntu Houston LoCo. We will still call
> > ourselves that later. Several years of habit kinda sticks...
> >
> > > Meetings of the TexasTeam as a complete entity may be extremely hard
> to
> > > attain. Rather small events in separate locations that address the
> state
> > > as a whole.
> >
> > > Even at UDS there were only select people that showed up for the
> > > meeting. This may have been due to one persons schedule being more
> open
> > > or one being closer than another but in any event it happened and good
> > > discussions existed.
> >
> > This brings up another problem I have noticed. I consider myself fairly
> > clued in. I was quite surprised to find out how much was "Decided" in
> > Dallas without so much as a peep on this list! Now we are having a
> > second meeting, in a different place so more people can attend... Now
> > where is it again? This is the primary problem with a Texas team. It
> > has a center. It is generally where the most active people are, and so
> > if you ain't there... If you want input from more of Texas, have a
> > second meeting in Austin, or Houston, or San Antonio... Or, have Team
> > Dallas II, and watch everyone else just do there own thing.
> >
> > (Again, I am sure this is coming across strong, and I do not mean to
> > offend people, but I am upset. Hopefully I am helping all of you to
> > understand why.)
> >
> > > I believe that the function of a state team offers many advantages
> over
> > > the city teams that are in place currently. One of them being larger
> > > projects can get assistance and as people have the time they can join
> > > and help different regions or different LoCo's using a common channel.
> >
> > This only works if the larger team is inclusive. At the moment, I do
> > not feel included.
> >
> > > I would like to cordially invite anyone to attend a meeting in
> Arlington
> > > this is going to be one of the topics discussed. I will also be
> > > discussing current projects that others and myself are involved in.
> > >
> > > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1336262
> >
> > This could be part of the problem, and why I do not feel included. Why
> > is the discussion so fragmented? We have a list... Updates are handy.
> > Every time I get on Ubuntu forums I have to check all the threads I
> > follow, so I do not do it too often. E-mail, however, I am on all day.
> >
> > > You can register your attendance either in person or from remote here
> > > https://edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uta-1nuet/+attend
> > >
> > > Thank you for your time. I look forward to watching and helping this
> > > team grow.
> >
> > I am interested. I wanted to go to UDS as well, but could not get the
> > time away, and will not be able to again. So someone pleas take notes.
> >
> > Lee
>
--001636283b960d848804798f77e4
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
So taking a step back, let's discuss how everyone sees the Texas LoCo T=
eam moving forward. =A0I've only been around the Ubuntu groups for just=
under 3 years, but I was around when the move was made to have only state =
level "approved" teams. =A0I'm sure it wasn't as big a de=
al to me since I wasn't part of an existing regional group. =A0I pretty=
much had the same role then as I'm taking now with contributing to a s=
tate team effort.<br>
<br>From my understanding, the existing regional groups were contacted prio=
r to this big push for a state level team. =A0A couple of the regional grou=
ps were not interested and I'm thinking this may be were the "feel=
ing of being left out / bypassed" is coming from. =A0Maybe? =A0I don&#=
39;t know, but that would be my impression. =A0If someone says that they=
9;re not interested, I would guess that they weren't interested. <br>
<br>Something that keeps being mentioned (and was mentioned two years ago w=
hen these same conversations took place) is "I don't see the benef=
it of a state loco over a regional loco".=A0 I'm probably backward=
s, but I've been trying to see the benefit of a regional loco over a st=
ate loco.=A0 There's already a well established Linux User Group nearby=
where I live and I don't see where starting Yet Another Regional LoCo =
out here would benefit anyone.=A0 I'm one of the ones where all of my L=
oCo involvement would continue to be with the Texas LoCo Team, and all of m=
y regional Linux stuff would be with my friendly neighborhood LUG.=A0 I wou=
ldn't encourage a regional LoCo out here, but I also wouldn't disco=
urage one.=A0 If someone wanted to start one out here, that's fine, but=
my focus would still be towards the state group.=A0 Again, it sounds like =
I may be in the minority.=A0 And I'm okay with that :-)<br>
<br>I'm glad that we're getting some good discussion in one place, =
out in the open.=A0 I encourage everyone, including those that would consid=
er themselves self-proclaimed "lurkers" to contribute their thoug=
hts.=A0 I see conversations on IRC getting better at directing people to mo=
ve some discussions to this mailing list.=A0 I'm similar to Lee in that=
I keep up with the list more than I do with most of the other channels.=A0=
I'm also on IRC and IM most of the day, too.<br>
<br>Cheers,<br>Jeremy<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 29,=
2009 at 4:52 PM, JJNova <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:jjnova at gam=
ecootie.com">jjnova at gamecootie.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); marg=
in: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
The benefits to a Texas Team are so minimal, that the reasoning behind<br>
actually forming an "official" team seems arbitrary at best. I=
9;m right<br>
there with you Lee, as we were an official team until the Community<br>
board was formed, and we were told that all benefits, kits, and pressed<br>
discs would no longer be coming our direction. Dallas used to work<br>
closely with all of the teams in Texas, and created the Texas Team wiki<br>
page with the intent of ensuring smooth transitioning for new users.<br>
<br>
Dallas Team, as well as Houston, have been Ubuntu fans before Ubuntu was<br=
>
popular. We were the groups that hosted Software Freedom Day events. We<br>
were the groups that were out there handing out discs and giving<br>
presentations. As our teams grew, and more popped up, we tried to make<br>
it a purpose to help these smaller teams, and that is what I see as the<br>
biggest benefit to being a "Texas Team", or more precisely, a joi=
nt<br>
effort of local teams to maintain a smooth sense of community for those<br>
in our areas.<br>
<br>
It seems to me that the idea of community has changed from being a local<br=
>
area, to being part of the "Ubuntu Community". Whereas over the y=
ears we<br>
have seen community to be a friendly, local group of people working<br>
together to help the "village", or our immediate area. Now, it ap=
pears<br>
"community' has become a nicer way to say "part of the mob&qu=
ot;. The push<br>
appears, to me, to be for the sole purpose of appeasing or joining the<br>
bigger mob. The Ubuntu Community.<br>
<br>
Keep in mind, that even though we have been pushing for an open source,<br>
free, and community driven experience for years, those paving the way to<br=
>
form an official Texas Team aren't a part of any established group as i=
t<br>
is. Having nominated their own to be team contact, as well as push for a<br=
>
formation that bypassed our already established teams. From my laymen<br>
eye, it appears there is a big circle jerk that we weren't invited to. =
I<br>
suppose everyone has someone to appease. Whereas we have focused on our<br>
communities for years, other are focused on The Community.<br>
<br>
I, personally, would love to see this energy spent on forming more local<br=
>
teams. There has been talk of forming a Central Texas team, and I plan<br>
to drive out that direction to sit in on their meetings, providing as<br>
much help as I can. Daniel Stone was talking last month about forming a<br>
team in the Burleson / Ft. Worth area, which I would really have loved<br>
see happen (DallasTeam is unable to appease to the entire metroplex). I<br>
was also hoping to drive out that way and help where possible.<br>
Unfortunately, he has shifted his focus on forming Texas Team.<br>
<br>
I guess I would just like to see more local teams. Teams that can do<br>
more good, and shift their styles based on their locale and the<br>
personalities of people that live in their region. For instance, if you<br>
live in a College town, your technique and lifestyle would be different<br>
than if your community was strictly suburbia. I much prefer a central<br>
place for us to stay in touch (like this mailing) and a place to point<br>
people in the right direction (like the wiki) than a "team" that =
will<br>
have slight control over the direction of the state. However minimal<br>
that is. I really don't want to see local teams compete for kits, since=
<br>
only the official Texas Team would receive them and pass them out as<br>
they see fit. I would hate to willingly put a wedge between Texas<br>
communities.<br>
<br>
-JJ<br>
<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
Lee Sharp wrote:<br>
> I have been quiet for the last few posts, but feel a need to respond.<=
br>
> Please keep in mind that I am responding to things as I understand the=
m.<br>
> =A0 I believe (and hope) that the message I received is not the one pe=
ople<br>
> intended to send!<br>
><br>
> Daniel Stone wrote:<br>
><br>
> =A0> The idea of an umbrella team is what I thought we were attempt=
ing to<br>
> =A0> achieve. Many areas have existing teams and they should not ge=
t<br>
> =A0> discounted in any way.<br>
> =A0><br>
> =A0> In my understanding the concept of a TexasTeam was more for gu=
iding the<br>
> =A0> end user to resources (hopefully nearby them) and building com=
munication<br>
> =A0> =A0between existing teams to help the state as a whole.<br>
><br>
> This is what I thought as well. =A0I support this concept. =A0However,=
I<br>
> have reservations about what I am seeing in practice.<br>
><br>
> =A0> The term hierarchy really should be left out of the equation b=
ecause in<br>
> =A0> concept a hierarchy gives the basic feel of one being greater =
or less<br>
> =A0> than another.<br>
><br>
> Not to mention some hard feelings from when long established LoCos wer=
e<br>
> "Told" we could not be official since we did not encompass t=
he state.<br>
> This still genders some bad will from a few of us.<br>
><br>
> =A0> To have to remember mail tags seems a little extreme. Setting =
even more<br>
> =A0> rules for the new user. Not to discard that discussion but if =
someone<br>
> =A0> wants to join the list we should be available and have answers=
if they<br>
> =A0> indeed write the list. Having the tag system to start would ha=
ve the new<br>
> =A0> and unknowing confused why they could not get a reply.<br>
><br>
> In Houston we have a list, a Wiki, a FaceBook, and a Myspace. =A0Frank=
ly,<br>
> I keep up with the list, occasionally remember to update the Wiki, and=
<br>
> skip the rest. =A0Now you (not really you singular, but "you"=
; plural in<br>
> the purely planning stages) want to funnel all of our stuff that we<br=
>
> already have in place, and that works, through yet another system? =A0=
I<br>
> think I will pass...<br>
><br>
> (Note that this is my initial impression, not what the LoCo of Houston=
<br>
> has decided... =A0Just giving you a feeling for how some of these mess=
ages<br>
> have been received down here, by at least one of us.)<br>
><br>
> =A0> Whatever you choose to call them TNT's, LoCo's, LUG=
9;s, or Regions they<br>
> =A0> support members of a like area. The TexasTeam LoCo is just the=
same.<br>
> =A0> TexasTeam is for the state and is here to help the end user fi=
nd a<br>
> =A0> resource.<br>
><br>
> Ditto. =A0We call ourselves the Ubuntu Houston LoCo. =A0We will still =
call<br>
> ourselves that later. =A0Several years of habit kinda sticks...<br>
><br>
> =A0> Meetings of the TexasTeam as a complete entity may be extremel=
y hard to<br>
> =A0> attain. Rather small events in separate locations that address=
the state<br>
> =A0> as a whole.<br>
><br>
> =A0> Even at UDS there were only select people that showed up for t=
he<br>
> =A0> meeting. This may have been due to one persons schedule being =
more open<br>
> =A0> or one being closer than another but in any event it happened =
and good<br>
> =A0> discussions existed.<br>
><br>
> This brings up another problem I have noticed. =A0I consider myself fa=
irly<br>
> clued in. =A0I was quite surprised to find out how much was "Deci=
ded" in<br>
> Dallas without so much as a peep on this list! =A0Now we are having a<=
br>
> second meeting, in a different place so more people can attend... Now<=
br>
> where is it again? =A0This is the primary problem with a Texas team. =
=A0It<br>
> has a center. =A0It is generally where the most active people are, and=
so<br>
> if you ain't there... =A0If you want input from more of Texas, hav=
e a<br>
> second meeting in Austin, or Houston, or San Antonio... =A0Or, have Te=
am<br>
> Dallas II, and watch everyone else just do there own thing.<br>
><br>
> (Again, I am sure this is coming across strong, and I do not mean to<b=
r>
> offend people, but I am upset. =A0Hopefully I am helping all of you to=
<br>
> understand why.)<br>
><br>
> =A0> I believe that the function of a state team offers many advant=
ages over<br>
> =A0> the city teams that are in place currently. One of them being =
larger<br>
> =A0> projects can get assistance and as people have the time they c=
an join<br>
> =A0> and help different regions or different LoCo's using a com=
mon channel.<br>
><br>
> This only works if the larger team is inclusive. =A0At the moment, I d=
o<br>
> not feel included.<br>
><br>
> =A0> I would like to cordially invite anyone to attend a meeting in=
Arlington<br>
> =A0> this is going to be one of the topics discussed. I will also b=
e<br>
> =A0> discussing current projects that others and myself are involve=
d in.<br>
> =A0><br>
> =A0> <a href=3D"http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1336262"=
target=3D"_blank">http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D1336262</a><b=
r>
><br>
> This could be part of the problem, and why I do not feel included. =A0=
Why<br>
> is the discussion so fragmented? =A0We have a list... =A0Updates are h=
andy.<br>
> =A0 Every time I get on Ubuntu forums I have to check all the threads =
I<br>
> follow, so I do not do it too often. =A0E-mail, however, I am on all d=
ay.<br>
><br>
> =A0> You can register your attendance either in person or from remo=
te here<br>
> =A0> <a href=3D"https://edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uta-1nuet/+atten=
d" target=3D"_blank">https://edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uta-1nuet/+attend</=
a><br>
> =A0><br>
> =A0> Thank you for your time. I look forward to watching and helpin=
g this<br>
> =A0> team grow.<br>
><br>
> I am interested. =A0I wanted to go to UDS as well, but could not get t=
he<br>
> time away, and will not be able to again. =A0So someone pleas take not=
es.<br>
><br>
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Lee<br></div></div></blockquote></div>
--001636283b960d848804798f77e4--
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