[ubuntu-uk] OT: OOo bashing was Word 2002 under Wine?

[Rob Beard]

William Anderson wrote:
> Rob Beard wrote:
>   
>> Sean Miller wrote:
>>     
>>> I concur... Openoffice is bloatware of the highest order.
>>>
>>> If I could be bothered to get an older version of Office working on
>>> wine I would - but I don't use office suites enough to do so.
>>>
>>> It's a shame, really, that Sun decided to go down the bloated route,
>>> because the early versions of Openoffice were really quite pleasant to
>>> use; I dread to click on a ".doc" attachment in an e-mail because I
>>> know the machine will whirr and click for ages before I actually get
>>> to see it.
>>>
>>> Sean
>>>       
>>  
>> I'd have to disagree on this one.  I've just opened a spreadsheet (one 
>> of my invoices) in OpenOffice.  I'm running my notebook in low power 
>> mode (1GHz) to save battery and it took 5 seconds from a cold start.  
>> I'd hardly say that is ages.  There are tweaks that you can do to 
>> OpenOffice to speed it up such as altering the memory usage [1].
>>     
>
> You really shouldn't have to tweak a productivity app in such a way to
> make it usable, IMHO.  Granted it took 12 seconds for Word to open up on
> my Mac when I tried it there, but at least I know I'll enjoy using it :)
>
>   
Actually I haven't done the tweaks on my laptop.
>> Now compare that to Office 2007 on one of my clients notebooks running 
>> Vista, it takes a good 30 or so seconds to start up.
>>
>> Not to mention, when did this become an OpenOffice bashing Mac loving 
>> mailing list?
>>     
>
> Did it?  My main computer is a MacBook Pro, my media server is a Mac
> mini, so I usually speak to my own personal experiences.  However, all
> my servers[1] run Ubuntu Server LTS, and in the past I've run a gamut of
> desktop OSes including all versions of Windows (bar Me) and most recent
> versions of Ubuntu.  In all cases, I've rarely enjoyed using OOo, and I
> shared Sean's dread when opening documents that wanted to use OOo due to
> the grindage and carnage that would ensue.
>
> Note that I'm not saying everyone should use MS Office over OOo, just
> that I have a personal preference, and I think that everyone should try
> and use the best tool for the job within the bounds of their preferences.
>
>   
I just got the general impression that you were saying that Macs were 
the the be all and end all, guess I read it wrong.  You're lucky not to 
have used Me, I had the annoying task of supporting it once, wasn't fun 
at all :-(
>> I have got a Mac myself (albeit older iMac G3) and I have used Macs for 
>> many years (going back to the old 68k Macs on System 6) but I find 
>> sometimes doing things on a Mac can be just as annoying as doing stuff 
>> on Windows (or in some cases as doing things on Linux).  I guess really 
>>     
>
> Odd, I rarely find using my Macs annoying.  I've spent more years
> cursing at Windows than I ever have at OS X or [insert Linux distro here].
>
>   
I dare say if I used my Mac more I probably wouldn't find it as 
annoying.  I must admit I did find some features useful, but not enough 
to stray me away from Ubuntu full time.
>> it's what you're used to.  For instance I'm used to a lot of keyboard 
>> shortcuts and generally the shortcuts are the same on Windows and Ubuntu 
>> (for most applications), now going to a Mac I find that rather than 
>> using CTRL I have to use the Option key.  Not a big thing really but I 
>> do find it annoying sometimes.  I dare say it can be annoying for a Mac 
>> user to go to a Windows or Linux box and find that some things aren't 
>> Mac like.
>>     
>
> Indeed.
>
>   
>> With regards too William's comment about OpenOffice not being a native 
>> app.  As far as I'm aware OpenOffice 3.1 IS a native app for OS X on 
>> Intel CPUs, and there is also NeoOffice (which IIRC is a native build of 
>> OpenOffice on both OS X Intel and OS X PPC).
>>     
>
> Sorry, my "natively" comment was referring to the UI, which has always
> seemed to me to be more interested in appearing the same across all
> platforms (which never works) than appearing attractive and highly
> usable on each platform so that it plays to each's strengths.  Just a
> pet hate.
>
>   
Fair enough.
>> With regards to MS Office 2008 being prettier than OpenOffice, remember 
>> this, the cheapest version of Office 2008 is the Home & Student version 
>>     
>
> Yup, that's the version I have.
>
>   
>> which is about £70 (doing a quick google check), and how much is 
>>     
>
> Yeah, I got the 3-user edition from amazon for a shade under 80 quid.
> And for me, that was money well spent.  YMMV, naturally.
>
>   
I do admit, if you're after MS Office then it is an attractive offer.  I 
am hoping that they do the same with Windows 7 as my other half can't 
get on with Ubuntu (she can use it, just doesn't like it) so I'm looking 
at upgrading her laptop and PC to Windows 7 (although that might annoy 
her even more).
>> OpenOffice? - FREE!
>>     
>
> Free to obtain, certainly, but the cost of someone's time to figure out
> the differences or possible shortcomings of OOo against MS Office could
> be expensive.
>
>   
90% of the people I've given copies of OpenOffice to have not had any 
problems, the other 10% needed some specific features of Office which 
they couldn't live without.
>> There is nothing stopping anyone picking up the code for OpenOffice and 
>> contributing to make it look better and work better and it's not as if 
>>     
>
> This is another attitude within the FLOSS community that irks me :)  Not
> everyone is a coder!
>
>   
True, but you could also provide feedback (okay if the developers take 
it on board is another thing).
>> you get it shoved down your throat like you do with Office 2007 on a new 
>> machine (I've lost count of the amount of Windows PCs I've seen with 
>> Office 2007 trial preinstalled which can only be used about 20 times 
>> before it disables itself and turns into a bloated Office viewer).
>>     
>
> "Shoved down your throat", right.  See, this is what I'm talking about.
>  Not your comment, but the practice of shoving things down people's
> throats when they didn't ask for them, such as recommending OOo when the
> OP wanted help with MS Office.
>
>   
I did actually reply separately offering the OP some suggestions such as 
how to simulate a reboot in Wine and mentioned CrossOver Office.
> Apologies to Mike if his comments were well-intentioned, which I have no
> doubt they were, but comments like "why aren't you using $FOO" when the
> question was "can someone help me with $BAR" just drive me nuts sometimes.
>
>   
Yeah I can see your point.
>> Don't get me started on the install sizes [2] (about 1.7GB for a full 
>> install of Office 2007 and about 400MB for OpenOffice.org)
>>     
>
> 2008 is about a gig here.  I agree that for something you'd use to
> create a spreadsheet or type up a letter, that's insane.  For reference,
> iWork '09 is 650 meg.
>
>   
Makes me wonder exactly what Microsoft have put in there.  Maybe I'm 
just a bit cynical, I remember when Word came on a couple of floppies 
and did just as good a job.
>> Now I'll be the first to admit that OpenOffice isn't perfect but it is 
>> enough for most people and works pretty well (apart from a couple of 
>> niggly bugs, but you can report bugs and track them online) and compared 
>> to the cost of Office 2007, you won't see me switching in a hurry.
>>     
>
> Then at least you've saved 70-odd quid :)
>
>   
Yep, every little helps.
> -n
>
> [1] 4 here at home, 1 at my parents, and various bits and bobs out in
> colo and virtual server land.
>
>   
Rob