[ubuntu-uk] www.ubuntu-uk.org

[TheVeech]

On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 10:53 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
> On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 10:37:46AM +0100, TheVeech wrote:
> > On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 09:39 +0100, Alan Pope wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 09, 2007 at 09:37:37AM +0100, TheVeech wrote:
> > > > Where can I submit some and what dimensions?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I dont think we have a process yet, but if we uploaded the whole site to bzr 
> > > then it would be nice to encourage members to use that for uploading 
> > > pictures. If nothing else it would increase awareness and use of 
> > > launchpad/bzr.
> > 
> > Dunno about bzr, TBH.  I can see quite a few people looking at it and
> > not bothering.  I'm not thinking about how easy or complex bzr may be,
> > but the potential gaps this highlights elsewhere.
> > 
> 
> Surely if you were told how to do it, it would pretty easy. I dont see this 
> thing being done every day by every Ubuntu-UK loco member, so it's not 
> exactly a headache.

Yes, I've never used it, but it looks simple enough.  Specific
instructions for using it in this context would save time, though.


> It would also be a great learning exercise because bzr is used heavily in 
> Ubuntu. It would be a nice way to get people learning how to use a versions 
> control system.

Never had to use one.  What are the options?


> > There isn't much, which leads me to wonder: even though Linux is gaining
> > a lot more 'non-geek' users, does the approach of the 'geek days' still
> > dominate how we do things in areas that may be preventing us from
> > adapting enough to new users' needs and making the most of the
> > influences they might bring?
> > 
> 
> There is nothing "geek" about using a service such as bzr to upload an 
> image. It is just an application. Difference is it doesn't have a funky web 
> 2.0 frontend.

No, there's nothing geek - most people may just not be aware of it, but
more aware of other methods of sharing and submitting data.  For getting
images to the webmaster, more people will be aware of photo-sharing
sites than VCSs.

If there's any link regarding 'geekness' here, it's that photo-sharing
sites are designed more to encourage greater sociability between people,
whereas VCSs focus more on enabling groups to work towards getting 'the
job' done.


> > Why aren't there prominent services like, say, Flickr or Gmail, by our
> > community for people who prefer the FLOSS way of doing things and don't
> > want to be tied to a company that retains the option to sell users short
> > (even though Novell contradicted this, this is by far the exception to
> > the rule)?  AFAIK, there's very little in this area, maybe because to
> > get the quality of software we have, a lot of us have to place the
> > emphasis more more on how software works, rather than examining what we
> > could potentially do with it?
> > 
> 
> That's a massive sentence and I don't understand what you are asking.

It's about as massive as asking why aren't there more of the social
websites for, e.g., photography, by the FLOSS community.  I can
appreciate you being peeved about a geek link with bzr, but the supposed
complexity of that paragraph has no bearing on your opinion or the
'geekishness' or otherwise of bzr.

'Funkiness' we can scoff at, but usability we can't.  'Funkiness' means
sweet FA without usability.  Flickr has both.  Bzr's lack of a 'funky'
frontend perhaps just means that there's different tools for different
tasks, since the mere existence of a GUI doesn't necessarily mean an
application is more usable.

The question remains, though: why do we neglect things like Flickr and
Gmail?


> > At the moment, I can pick many alternative services to, say, Flickr, but
> > the independent ones are usually only independent because they exist to
> > be bought out.  Sod that.
> > 
> 
> This is making bzr sound much more attractive.

That's the point!  I want options like this in other areas, too.


> > In this instance, for photos to the Ubuntu-UK site, I'd like to be able
> > to upload photos to a social photo-sharing site and make this known
> > through web-based email, all via high-quality projects run by the FLOSS
> > community.  IMHO, what's happening with Yahoo! makes this a good time to
> > be thinking about it and about another possibility for indirectly
> > promoting FLOSS.
> > 
> 
> You seem to be contradicting yourself.
> 
> "Social network sites are evil because they can be bought by evil companies"
> 
> "I don't want to use an open system to upload my images, I'd like to use an 
> evil social networking site".
> 
> Call me thick. I don't get it. Short sentences work well on me.

This is dodgy logic all round.

The organisations behind some social network sites can take up a policy,
by agreeing to be bought out in a way that transforms the network, that
works against the interests of a number of users, whose views can be
disregarded, depending on the personalities running the organisations.