[ubuntu-uk] Face to Face support on the Ohio

Rob Spirit at bluedragoon.co.uk
Thu Jun 7 08:45:09 BST 2007


Snip

I would suggest that you think about your own dealings with Call Centres -
everyone has had an interesting experience with off shore centres - the
technician may know their stuff but trying to communicate it in a language
that is understood - look at Caroline and her Wi-fi for instance.

In addition wouldn't you have to offer an IRC / IM support service too?

 i have an IRC server you guys can use irc.forthegamers.org find me 
(caboose) or Ghozer on there or wait for me to come online in #chat


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:  Repo's on Demand was  repo in a box (Ian Pascoe)
>    2. Re:  [vorian at ubuntu.com: Face to Face support on the	Ohio
>       (Ian Pascoe)
>    3. Re:  [vorian at ubuntu.com: Face to Face support on the Ohio
>       (Chris Rowson)
>    4. Re:  rsync chgrp problem - advice, please? (luxxius)
>    5.  Lugradio Live, Ubuntu-uk and the Stand. (Nik Butler)
>    6. Re:  Repo's on Demand was  repo in a box (Alan Pope)
>    7. Re:  rsync chgrp problem - advice, please? (luxxius)
>    8. Re:  rsync chgrp problem - advice, please?
>       (Matthew Macdonald-Wallace)
>    9. Re:  rsync chgrp problem - advice, please? (Tony Arnold)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:32:44 +0100
> From: "Ian Pascoe" <softy.lofty.ilp at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Repo's on Demand was  repo in a box
> To: "Alan Pope" <alan at popey.com>,	"British Ubuntu Talk"
> 	<ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<BJEBIDFAKAGIFDCKKHILCEEFDCAA.softy.lofty.ilp at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Alan
>
> Yep, fair comment on the CD / DVDs.  As a matter of interest, obviously  the
> size of the required disk space will increase as the distro matures - ie
> taking in all the updates etc.  Can we find out how big Edgy grew before
> Fiesty was launched?
>
> Mind you <puts tin hat on> would there actually be cause for such a service
> within the UK at the moment for people who are not Internet connected?  The
> two countries that would benefit from something like this would be India and
> China; on a non-Ubuntu mailing list people from both these countries are
> wondering around the hinterlands with stacks of CDs to do exactly this task.
> How about getting our own back on these two countries by providing a UK
> based Call Centre manned with Scousers and Geordies speaking Hindi?  <no
> offence to anyone meant>
>
> This could quite nicely be tied in with the UK Support on the other thread!
>
> E
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ubuntu-uk-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
> [mailto:ubuntu-uk-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com]On Behalf Of Alan Pope
> Sent: 05 June 2007 14:10
> To: British Ubuntu Talk
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Repo's on Demand was repo in a box
>
>
> Hi Ian,
>
> On Mon, Jun 04, 2007 at 10:41:57PM +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote:
>   
>> My only worry on this would be the cost of maintaining the stocks of those
>> USB drives.
>>
>>     
>
> I am sure stock can be managed. If a lot of orders come in then more drives
> can be ordered, but some would be in "stock" to replace broken ones, or
> supply to new customers.
>
>   
>> Presumeably this would be just a web based and not a telephone based
>>     
> service
>   
>> Alan?
>>
>>     
>
> Correct. I was thinking of a web based system where you can pick from a list
> of pre-made hard disks or you pick and choose your requirements. Pick "n"
> repos for "m" architectures, and add in "x" number of ISOs or something.
>
>   
>> How about taking it one step back and providing CD / DVD with just the new
>> apps and dependancies, and updates that the user requires?
>>
>>     
>
>
>   
>> For instance you install the Live CD so have the basic package.  You log
>> onto "Al's virtual store" and look at the descriptions of those apps
>> available in whichever repo is available to you.
>>
>> You select those apps you want to try, and 48 hours later the CD / DVD
>> arrives with not only those packages you requested, but all the updates
>>     
> for
>   
>> the base install.
>>
>> Next time around, the system remembers what you have already asked for so
>> sends out the updates for those as well as the new requests.
>>
>>     
>
> Sounds like redhat network update :)
>
> Problem is that someone could manually add a package (via a usb stick) or
> remove applications and we would not know about that because they have
> (potentially) no net connectivity.
>
> We then send them a CD full of updates for apps they don't have - or worse,
> no updates for apps they do have.
>
>   
>> Additionally, you could have a monthly or bi-monthly subscription to send
>> out all the updates that have come out during the previous period.
>>
>> If you don't like the package, you remove it from your personal list, and
>>     
> so
>   
>> won't get any further updates.
>>
>> This seems a cheaper and less difficult system to maintain.  But it's
>> unfortunately not that green, and more importantly I haven't got a clue as
>> to how practical it is either!
>>
>>     
>
> It's certainly an option. However I quite like the brute force approach of
> sending everything. That way they can install new applications (and all
> dependencies) from the USB disk. They could also put the USB disk on a
> server and use that as a repo for many machines (think of a school in a
> remote location that has no or limited net connectivity).
>
> If you used the DVD model you proposed, how would you maintain 20, 40, 100+
> machines? Would become quite an admin headache when compared with "I send
> this disk through the post and I get it back, updated within a week"
>
>   
>> It also means that the cost to the end user is less as we aren't holding a
>> returns fee with all the cost and implications that that entails; instead
>> all they pay for is the cost of the CD / DVD, P&P and a small mark up to
>> cover running costs.
>>
>>     
>
> I am not convinced that money is the primary problem here. Maybe this could
> be franchied out to local people to reduce freight costs. That way people
> could post - or even take - their disk to their local agent to get it
> updated/replaced.
>
>   
>> Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really grand idea, and certainly would
>> enjoy the challenge of something like this!
>>
>>     
>
> Thanks. I'm not taking any of this as critisism, it's all the feedback I was
> after.
>
>   
>> To be honest and pre-echo a subsequent mail, it sounds so good that
>>     
> someone
>   
>> somewhere must already run such a service ....?
>>
>>     
>
> Well, it was pointed out on irc yesterday that there are people out there
> selling repos on a CD/DVD:-
>
> http://www.thelinuxstore.org.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id
> =1302
>
> 15.39GBP + P&P for 6DVDs containing "complete ubuntu 7.04".
>
>
>   
>> Actually, following on from this how does Ubuntu distribute it's Live CD's
>> worldwide - are they all shipped from the States or are there stocks held
>> throughout the world for local distribution?
>>
>>     
>
> I don't know where they are manufactured but my feisty set came from The
> Netherlands.
>
> Cheers,
> Al.
>
> --
> ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk
> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:32:45 +0100
> From: "Ian Pascoe" <softy.lofty.ilp at btinternet.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [vorian at ubuntu.com: Face to Face support on
> 	the	Ohio
> To: "British Ubuntu Talk" <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<BJEBIDFAKAGIFDCKKHILEEEFDCAA.softy.lofty.ilp at btinternet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> My views are:
>
> You can't just have a call outbound facility if you want to offer a Service
> Desk.  It has to be both ways even if the inbound call goes to voicemail
> advising the user that a technician will call them back.
>
> Next, whatever is done has to be seen by the person needing support as being
> professional.
>
> Does the Remote Access on the desktop menus do what it says enabling the
> support person to access the users PC directly assuming of course it's
> connected to the Internet?
>
> What type of support will be offered?  Technical, training, advisory /
> sales?
>
> What happens if all the support staff aren't available for a period of time
> through sickness / holiday / normal work?
>
> Where will the support people go if they don't know the answer
>
> I would suggest that you think about your own dealings with Call Centres -
> everyone has had an interesting experience with off shore centres - the
> technician may know their stuff but trying to communicate it in a language
> that is understood - look at Caroline and her Wi-fi for instance.
>
> In addition wouldn't you have to offer an IRC / IM support service too?
>
> The idea for a VoIP server seems quite good on the surface, as the
> CallWeaver project would probably fall into this category, but how you
> managed the ACD is another item - ACD=Automated Call distribution
>
> Personally, I don't feel comfortable with the current support for VoIP
> services to be able to manage any significant call volumes.  In addition you
> have to contend with Internet contention ratios which can on occasion make
> VoIP  calls sound like Mickey Mouse due to the compression or drop the call
> entirely.
>
> I don't think we need the facility to record calls, as there wouldn't be a
> financial or legal implication, nor would there be a manager wanting to
> coach us on how we handle those calls!
>
> Sorry for being somewhat dis-jointed in this but these are as they came out
> so to speak.  I've had the requirement to set up things like this before,
> using traditional telephony, and although it can be quite effective, the
> enthusiasm is high at the start, with lots of people to help you, but six
> months down the line, when it's only just a couple of you doing this it gets
> to be no fun at all.
>
> But if we could join up with the Ohio mob to offer UK / US support using
> VoIP that'd be cool!  Yeah I know that goes against what I just said but it
> is an almost free society after all!!
>
> E
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ubuntu-uk-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
> [mailto:ubuntu-uk-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com]On Behalf Of Dave Walker
> Sent: 06 June 2007 13:15
> To: British Ubuntu Talk
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [vorian at ubuntu.com: Face to Face support on the
> Ohio
>
>
> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 09:19 +0100, Chris Rowson wrote:
>   
>>> Yes I guess what we could really do with is some sort of webpage which
>>> would allow us to track support issues and to see which  have been
>>> resolved . If only there was some widely used Voice over IP software
>>> which enables us to make calls which could be recorded and which could
>>> be provided on spec [1]
>>>
>>>       
>> Services like sipgate allow a voice message to be left when the
>> 'phone' isn't answered. Sipgate can then email the voice message in a
>> .wav format to any email address you specify.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>     
>
> If were looking at doing it this way, then why not host our own Asterisk
> server.  We could then have a 'Ring Group' that volunteers could
> sign-in/out of 'include me' status.
>
> The 'ring group', could work by 'call all users registered', round robin
> or remembers who last answered the call and pushes to next on the list.
>
> If nobody is online / or answers, then the call is passed to voicemail
> that could either be emailed to a select group - or uploaded to a
> 'tracking system' online.
>
> A support volunteer could sign in either via VOIP (ekiga, SIP phone etc)
> or could call somebodies normal telephone number.  Outbound trunks are
> very reasonably priced.
>
>
> Kind Regards,
> Dave Walker
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 21:41:30 +0100
> From: "Chris Rowson" <christopherrowson at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] [vorian at ubuntu.com: Face to Face support on
> 	the Ohio
> To: "British Ubuntu Talk" <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<d6c346600706061341r44626a1dy3fe7956ed2b0c70d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Just a note folks - there's a page on the wiki devoted to this now...
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/VoiceSupport
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 21:58:33 +0100
> From: luxxius <luxxius at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] rsync chgrp problem - advice, please?
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <46671FF9.70809 at googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Neil Greenwood wrote:
> <snip>
>   
>> I haven't used rsync much, but I would guess from the error message
>> (and where I've seen it before) that the USB drive is formatted using
>> FAT
>>     
>
> Neil >>> Yes, it's FAT32, 'cos I need to write to it with both OSs
>
>   
>> I'm fairly sure that your conclusion is correct - you could check
>> quickly by looking at the file properties (size and date/time) for one
>> of the files mentioned
>>     
>
> You're right:  most of the source files have group = root(rw-);  the 
> failed ones have group = diana(r--).  I originally copied the mass of 
> the files from a NAS to /home/diana/music;  looks like now, when I add 
> new files there, they have diana as owner and group.
>
>   
>> To prevent it, check the group for the files that gave errors and one
>> of the files that didn't. Change the problem files to be in the group
>> that isn't causing problems. 
>>     
>
> I'll have a go at fixing this, as you suggest.  I guess this means that 
> I'll have to chgrp all the files I add to the music directory to root.
>
>   
>> Hope I haven't included too much info. If I've glossed over anything
>> and you'd like more details, also post a reply.
>>     
>
> No, you've been very reassuring and a real help.  Now I'll just go and 
> spend an hour or two with 'Linux in a nutshell' to make sure I know what 
> I'm doing when I chgrp the files!
>
> Many thanks, and best wishes
> --
> Diana
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:20:17 +0100
> From: Nik Butler <nik at reducedhackers.com>
> Subject: [ubuntu-uk] Lugradio Live, Ubuntu-uk and the Stand.
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <46672511.5090708 at reducedhackers.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This is a Public Service Announcement on behalf of the Loudmouthman :
>
>
> John Levin , if your out there and available can you get in touch with
> us we are all desperately trying to contact you. Especially Mrs Trellis.
>
>
> Nik Butler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:39:15 +0100
> From: Alan Pope <alan at popey.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Repo's on Demand was  repo in a box
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <1181169555.15339.15.camel at wopr.popey.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 21:32 +0100, Ian Pascoe wrote:
>   
>> Alan
>>
>> Yep, fair comment on the CD / DVDs.  As a matter of interest, obviously  the
>> size of the required disk space will increase as the distro matures - ie
>> taking in all the updates etc.  Can we find out how big Edgy grew before
>> Fiesty was launched?
>>
>>     
>
> Funny you should ask.
>
> For i386 only (measured in GiB):-
>
> Release: full size (binary only size)
>
> Dapper: 31.3 (14.9)
> Edgy: 34.1 (17.2)
> Feisty: 33.1 (16.3)
> Gutsy: 34.5 (16.7) (currently)
>
> For AMD64 and powerpc it is much the same, sparc is about 1GiB (0.5GiB)
> smaller.
>
>   
>> Mind you <puts tin hat on> would there actually be cause for such a service
>> within the UK at the moment for people who are not Internet connected? 
>>     
>
> Not much. I would imagine. However I can see a substantial number of
> non-UK residents appreciating this.
>
> Cheers,
> Al
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:02:06 +0100
> From: luxxius <luxxius at googlemail.com>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] rsync chgrp problem - advice, please?
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <46679F5E.1000708 at googlemail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Neil Greenwood wrote:
> <snip>
>   
>> check the group for the files that gave errors and one
>> of the files that didn't. Change the problem files to be in the group
>> that isn't causing problems. 
>>     
>
> I can find all the files with the group that's causing the hiccup using
>
> 	find /home/diana/music -group diana
>
> Is there a simple way to redirect the results to chgrp root and then 
> chmod them to 664 so that I can automate this in future?
>
> (I've been trying, without success, to pipe the find results, but I'm 
> struggling now.  Books are fine for individual commands, but not much 
> help for creating processes or very simple scripts)
>
> TIA
> --
> Diana
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 7:24:48 +0100
> From: Matthew Macdonald-Wallace <matthew at truthisfreedom.org.uk>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] rsync chgrp problem - advice, please?
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> 	<bed09f93e87474adced2af7202207bda at mail.truthisfreedom.org.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
>
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:02:06 +0100, luxxius <luxxius at googlemail.com> wrote:
>   
>> Neil Greenwood wrote:
>> <snip>
>>     
>>> check the group for the files that gave errors and one
>>> of the files that didn't. Change the problem files to be in the group
>>> that isn't causing problems.
>>>       
>> I can find all the files with the group that's causing the hiccup using
>>
>> 	find /home/diana/music -group diana
>>
>> Is there a simple way to redirect the results to chgrp root and then
>> chmod them to 664 so that I can automate this in future?
>>
>> (I've been trying, without success, to pipe the find results, but I'm
>> struggling now.  Books are fine for individual commands, but not much
>> help for creating processes or very simple scripts)
>>
>> TIA
>> --
>> Diana
>>     
>
>
> Try (and this may need checking by others!)
>
> for i in find /home/diana/music -group diana; do chgrp root $i && chmod 644 $i; done
>
> basically (if I've got it right!) then this loops through the output of the find command and executes chgrp and chmod on every line that is sent to it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Matt.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:45:23 +0100
> From: Tony Arnold <tony.arnold at manchester.ac.uk>
> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] rsync chgrp problem - advice, please?
> To: British Ubuntu Talk <ubuntu-uk at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <4667A983.3020403 at manchester.ac.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>
>
> Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
>   
>> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 07:02:06 +0100, luxxius <luxxius at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> Neil Greenwood wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>       
>>>> check the group for the files that gave errors and one
>>>> of the files that didn't. Change the problem files to be in the group
>>>> that isn't causing problems.
>>>>         
>>> I can find all the files with the group that's causing the hiccup using
>>>
>>> 	find /home/diana/music -group diana
>>>
>>> Is there a simple way to redirect the results to chgrp root and then
>>> chmod them to 664 so that I can automate this in future?
>>>
>>> (I've been trying, without success, to pipe the find results, but I'm
>>> struggling now.  Books are fine for individual commands, but not much
>>> help for creating processes or very simple scripts)
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> --
>>> Diana
>>>       
>> Try (and this may need checking by others!)
>>
>> for i in find /home/diana/music -group diana; do chgrp root $i && chmod 644 $i; done
>>     
>
> You need back quotes around the find command, viz:
>
> for i in `find /home/diana/music -group diana` ; do chgrp root $i &&
> chmod 644 $i; done
>
> (should be all on one line, excuse the wrap)
>
> Regards,
> Tony.
>   




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