[ubuntu-uk] UKTeam meeting update

[Alan Pope]

On Tue, Apr 10, 2007 at 11:05:02PM +0100, David M wrote:
> Nik Butler wrote in gmane.linux.ubuntu.user.british 
>  about: UKTeam meeting update 
> 
> > Did you know there are  380 subscribers to the UK Maillist allowing for 
> > duplicates and metoo addresses thats not a small number of people 
> > chatting and sharing ideas about Ubuntu. 
> 
> That ain't bad..!
> 

There are also a tremendous number of people who say (next to) nothing.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/MailingListStats

10 people account for 31% of the mail since the list started. That's less 
than 3% of the membership accounting for 31% of the volume. That's about 
right for most mailing lists I am on.

> > We had the 8th meeting of the UKTeam the channel last night and the 
> > topic of Roles and Contacts (  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/Contact ) , 
> > especially relating to the LOCOContact arose. 
> 
> I sometimes get the feeling that we live in a number of parallel universes..
> 
> Y'see, I don't *do* IRC, not really for any particular religious
> reasons, but because it doesn't suit me. With a mailing list, or a
> newsgroup, or even a forum (bleh), I can pop in and out and read and
> reply as and when it suits me. Whereas IRC is a here and now thing, and
> while a certain here and a certain now might suit some people, there are
> always going to be others who are doing other things at that time.
> 

I guess a meeting on IRC is about as close to an in-person meeting of minds 
as we can get. It's not practical for us to all physically be in one place 
at one time. IRC allows us to discuss things in a finite amount of time from 
pretty much anywhere using a myriad of internet-connected devices.

Mailing lists also allow the free communication and collaboration from 
remote locations bit. The time lag though can be quite painful. Especially 
if people chip in after the meeting has "concluded". Mailing list 
discussions tend to ramble on with diversions here and there. IRC meetings 
are often on time, to schedule and everyone gets their point across - 
assuming a good meeting "chair".

> I'm starting to get the impression that a certain amount of 'stuff' 
> goes on on IRC that never filters down to The Rest Of Us. Just for 
> example, what is this "UKTeam" (or "LOCOContact", come to that), and 
> how does it differ from this collection of Ubuntu enthusiasts as a whole?
> 

The UKTeam is detailed on the wiki:- http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam.

> > Id like to remind everyone reading this message that the UKTeam has a 
> > regular meeting at which only 40 members are present but in general 10 
> > to most of the discussions. Id love to see more people around during the 
> > meetings and providing input on the Agendas or at the meeting and if you 
> > have and concerns or questions about taking part in just this way then 
> > get in touch. 
> 
> I think there's a message there: we have almost 400 members on the list
> (which is pretty impressive), but only 40, or even less, on IRC, less
> than 10%, in other words. Now, for folk who enjoy IRC, that's all well 
> and good (and don't let me stop you enjoying it), but it seems to me, 
> that the rest - the majority - of the UK Ubuntu community (who are 
> online/involved in any sense) are here on the list instead.
> 

Instead? I don't think so. Of the "top 30" posters to the list (as in the 
url I linked to above) I recognise many of the names from the irc channel. 
Don't think that there is a clear deliniation between "those who use irc" 
and "those who use the mailing list", there is a massive crossover, it's 
just that you're not in that crossover :).

Also be very careful of extrapolating mailing list membership numbers to 
anything at all. A number of UK LUG Masters (the people who run regional 
LUGs) have made the assumption that :-

number of members of mailing list [(should) =] number of contributors

This is a bad assumption to make. Many people in our community are lurkers, 
people who sit back and watch the conversation pass by, or maybe completely 
ignore it. To include them in stats about how many people contribute or 
indeed should contribute is misguided.

As an analogy think of all the people on the road who drive Mondeos but 
*aren't* in the "Official Mondeo Owners Club" [OMOC] (if indeed such an 
entity exists). Are those people in the Mondeo "community"? Or are they just  
passive users of the technology, not really interested in becoming a 
"member". Maybe they use the mailing list or forum of the OMOC to find out 
what that annoying noise is in the dashboard, are they *then* members of the 
community? Should their "vote" count? Should they have a say, as a very 
small non-vocal non-participatory "member"?

In these communities generally there are a few people who "do stuff", a few 
more who "chip in" and a vast swathe of people who sit back and watch. There 
is nothing inherently wrong with that, it's just the way it is. I don't 
think we should try to make people do stuff they don't want to, encourage, 
yes, force, no.

> So perhaps it should be the case that important decisions and discussions 
> should be taking place on the list, rather than on IRC, so as to involve 
> more of the community?

Well, it's funny you shouild say that. On a number of occassions we have 
discussed things on IRC where the ultimate decision was "lets bring this up 
on the mailing list and talk about it there".

> As it is, I'm getting the impression that a small, 
> but atypical, group of folk on IRC are (presumably) doing some things 
> (which is good), but if the rest of us can play a role, we need to be 
> able to be involved, and if, as I suspect, the here and now of IRC 
> doesn't suit everybody, then the opportunity to involve others and share
> tasks isn't being used to its best advantage. 

Tricky. Are you suggesting that the small number of people who actually do 
something should completely change the way they meet to cater for (so far) 
one person who doesn't like IRC?

In real live does everyone else move their meeting venue to cater for you if 
you can't be there? :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at you, it's just coming across as 
"I don't like IRC, therefore everyone else should change to pander to me".

> Excluding people, who may
> have valuable skills to contribute, just because they aren't online at
> some exact moment, doesn't seem to me to be the best way to grow the
> group and achieve more goals.
> 

We (Ubuntu-UK) are really just following the lead set by Ubuntu/Canonical. 
Pretty much all meetings are held on IRC, not just ours. Take a look at the 
schedule on the fridge for example:- http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event Pretty 
much everything you see there is a meeting on IRC.

Think how lucky we are being in the same time zone in the UK. Many meetings 
have people from all over the world online at once. Sometimes people attend 
in their lunch at work, or at home in the evening, I've been at meetings 
where people have been online from an airline departure lounge.

Whilst I agree we need to be as inclusive as we can, I don't see how much 
more we can be. IRC is a pretty open system. We all have our own lives and 
have to juggle stuff in order to be online at the time of the meeting. 
Sometimes we can't make it, that's life. The more people who can make the 
meeting of course the better.

Cheers,
Al.