Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer

Mon May 7 12:31:25 UTC 2012

Hi :)
Ahhh, i didn't think it was a gender issue.  Neutral gender is better but not always possible.  In English we have only he, she or it.  "It" = a non-human object.  

I thought it was about being respectful to elders as opposed to younger people or subordinates.  
Regards from
Tom :)

--- On Mon, 7/5/12, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer
To: goof at coppernet.zm
Cc: ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
Date: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 12:56

Hi Anthony!
In this specific case we are having some sort of elusive way to comprehend, we say something like: "Please choose...", while in Hebrew you can say "Please choose" in a genderless manner (נא לבחור, Na Livhor), I can't think of any equivalent term in English (Maybe: Something should be chosen, no genders involved as well).

In some cases we are also using another elusive way of writing a gender oriented word that can be interpreted as both male or female when written without diacritics (Niqqud in Hebrew).

Kind regards,Yaron Shahrabani

<Hebrew translator>

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 3:07 PM,  <goof at coppernet.zm> wrote:

Hi Yaron,Many thanks for that. I also have that issue but it comes into play mainly when used in conversation.On the other hand, it seems in your case you have chosen to depict an action without considering who is carrying it out right? 

For example, from the debian installer string: "Choose the next step in the install process" yours would be like "Choosing ......"
Thanks for your help.

Anthony

From: "Yaron Shahrabani" <sh.yaron at gmail.com>
To: goof at coppernet.zm

Cc: ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 1:32:11 PM

Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer

Hi Anthony,We had the same conflict with the Hebrew translation.Our problem is slightly different, in Hebrew there are differences when addressing a male or a female.

The first approach we tried is using a muscular plural form, I didn't like that approach die to implied schizophrenia, if the user is all alone in the room, how can one assume he might be many instead of one...

Not ideal.
The rules of the Hebrew academy suggest that when the gender of the addressee is unknown you should relate to him as a male.
I decided to take a different approach, making the translations genderless, in English it's something like: Opening file and Closing (Instead of Open file and Close).

Kind regards,Yaron Shahrabani

<Hebrew translator>

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 1:35 PM,  <goof at coppernet.zm> wrote:

Hello fellow translators,

I have hit what I might call a big problem with my language, Bemba. In this language, the way we address a young person is different to the the way we address an older person in speech and writing.When I started to translate Ubuntu from English to Bemba, I assumed that the computer is telling the user what it can do and so is in a way talking to the person first. Because of this, I chose to use the respectful alternative to addressing a human user. This way the computer will always sound like it is not being rude to the user. This approach has presented a small problem with some people who have reviewed some of my translations. They are of the opinion that I should always assume that the user is telling the computer to do something, thus the instruction should be like a human talking to someone they supervise in order for them do have something done for them. The respectful manner should only be used by the computer when it displays something as a
 reaction to the user input.

An example is 'Open File'. The question is: In this case, is the menu item in the computer application telling the human that it able to open a file or it is the human who is telling the computer to open the file? I ask this because depending on which is which, my translations approach will have a whole new twist and I would have to re-check my approach.

Please advise if any of you have  such a language challenge and what side you have taken: Is it the human that tell the computer what to do such that its responses are only when a dialogue box opens or it is the computer that tells the human what it can do and so seems to 'speak' first and advises the human of what it is able to do?

Many thanks for any help.

Anthony

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