R: Translation of Ubuntu glossary and terminology in rosetta

[Adi Roiban]

În data de Mi, 19-11-2008 la 14:25 +0100, Danilo Šegan a scris:
> Hi Milo, Adi,
> 
> У сре, 19. 11 2008. у 10:35 +0000, Milo Casagrande пише:
> > --- Mer 19/11/08, Adi Roiban <adi at roiban.ro> ha scritto:
> > > What do you think about having the Ubuntu Glossary
> > > translated in
> > > Rosetta?
> > > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Glossary
> 
> I think that's a pretty good idea.  If it's translated in Launchpad, we
> can do all sort of smart things with it (like linkify words in English
> strings to their translations from the glossary).
Can you we have this glossary in Rosetta and then exported in "Help and
support" to be used with yelp?

Is here anything we can help?

> > > As another matter I would like to see an Ubuntu Terminology
> > > file available for translations in Rosetta, following the idea
> > > of MS Terminology Translation:
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/MILSGlossary.mspx
> > > 
> > > This file should help translators, for both documentation
> > > and applications.
> > 
> > This is a little bit different from the previous one
Yes. Sorry for mixing this two subjects!

The glossary from here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Glossary is
targeted to novice users!

The terminology should be targeted to translation teams.

> > From my experience with upstream translation teams, it's not always that 
> > easy to reach an agreement (inside a team) on the translation of common 
> > terms. For the Ubuntu Italian team we have a glossary based on the one
> > from the TP project, it's not as big as the Microsoft one, but it serves our needs.

I know it is not easy and it depends very much of the localisation
 teams are wiling to cooperate for having a single glossary and translation guide.

For the case of Romanian localisation teams we did not have a common
translation guide. We manage to improve the Romanian translation Guide
for Ubuntu based of the feedback and complains received from the other
teams, bringing it in a good shape and from there it was very easy to be
accepted by the other teams.

Right now we no longer have an Ubuntu specific translation guide as it
was transformed in the general translation guide.

> For starters, I'd like to mention that GNOME did use to have a glossary:
> 
>   http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-i18n/trunk/glossary/
> 
> However, I believe it was too big and too verbose to be actually useful.
> 
> What we want is probably a mix of common phrases and terminology in one
> place, and a glossary in another.
> 
> Eg. 
>   msgctxt "Menu"
>   msgid "Edit"
> 
> could be translated differently from the Edit button (i.e. you might
> have a style guide that recommends using imperative form in top-level
> menus).  This would be useful to define a definite standard translation
> for a particular type of entry, and we should maintain it in Launchpad.
> This could then be used to evaluate somebody's translation capabilities
> to a language as well, before you accept them into a reviewer team (this
> is actually one of Mark's old ideas).
I think this definition of standard translations should be
 implemented independently from the  glosary or the terminology translation,
but I agree it is very important.

> A glossary would be a descriptive standard that explains the terms and
> is not as helpful in translation.
> 
> Though, I'd like this to not be Ubuntu-specific, but to make it
> Launchpad-wide so it could be shared with all the other projects hosted
> in Launchpad.

I am also OK with having general Launchpad translation.
I good use case would be to have a popup or an ajax component to search
the terminology translation from within a template page, and when you
want to look for the translation a word you can search it.

We can have that popup to look like the one used for adding people to a
team or assining a bug to a packet.

The context is very important and maybe we can describe the context in a
comment. Like the one from gnome.

The problem with using Rosetta as a tool for translating a terminology
dictionary is the way new terms are added.
I think that right now, to add a new term you have to upload a new .pot
file.

In an ideal world I would like to have an open submission system for new
terms. Everyone can add a new term if he/she thinks it should be in the
glossary. 

> > I too would like to see such a glossary for Ubuntu, and also for other
> > translation projects; at least having it in English, translating it is
> > another aspect to deal with (and probably not an easy one), but if we
> > can create such a file, that would be just great!
> 
> If there are enough interested parties, I'd like to start a project
> where we would develop both a common-phrases.pot and glossary.pot, if
> that sounds sane.  However, I'd expect that you guys would be willing to
> help with that as well :)
> 
> I would then also be happy to spend time linking these in Launchpad to
> translation interface, but we first need to have something in place.
Ok.
Let's start with gnome glossary and see what we can do and how we can
improve the glossary and also Rosetta to use the terminology
translations.
> Cheers,
> Danilo
> 
To make a summary of this discussion, so far we are looking after this
things:

1. Importing https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Glossary in the package
ubuntu-docs from Launchpad . This glossary should be targeted for novice
users and should describe the specific terminology in a human readable
way.

2. Creating a glossary.pot / terminology.pot , make an initial
translation and see how to improve Launchpad to make better user of this
glossary or manage this file.

We can start from the gnome glossary or other glossary.
The Romanian glossary is located here: http://i18n.ro/glosar/ and I can
export it's content.

Each entry should have a comment about it's context usage.

3. Create a common-phrases.pot for defining a standard.

The Romanian teams are using such a guide in the form of a wikipage:
http://i18n.ro/Ghidul_traducatorului_de_software

It contains an explanation of the standard translation together with
some examples of good and bad translations.

Maybe we can split these in different threads and on different
mailinglists.
-- 
Adi Roiban