[ubuntu-studio-devel] Hellotux shop

[ttoine]

Set, thanks a lot for your answer.
I think that instead having this ressource on Launchpad, we should have a
page on our website, like this:
https://eclipse.org/artwork/
With all the ressources available to download. And a disclaimer, telling
what you can do or not do, and how to contact us. This would make it easier.

I will send this link to Hellotux:
http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-artwork/current-standard/files
So they can get the orginal files.

So, even with Set clarification about Ralf's tone, I will take time to
answer to him, because I would like things to be transparents.

Are they allowed to use it or aren't they? If they are allowed to do
> it, then they are free to do it, right?
>

You are playing on words. Legal stuff and brand management are not a joke.
And words are to be used very, very carefully.

What have the clothes to do with the software? Nothing! Absolutely
> nothing! Somebody allows them to use the logo, that's ok, but it makes
> no sense to announce a product of a shop.
>

The clothes are about Community management. The software should be only a
part of Ubuntu Studio, and the most important should be the Ubuntu Studio
community.

There is an obvious legal reason why we must speak about it on the shop: we
must inform that Hellotux has the right to sell swag with the brand. And we
must add a disclaimer that as usual with Ubuntu Studio swag, we don't have
any benefit. So this is clear for our community, and for Canonical.

>If we don't inform our community, how they are aware that this is
> >available????
>
> If they want clothes, they should search for clothes. It's not the
> business of a FLOSS distro to advertise what some shop sells.
>

Selling swag is the first source of revenue for any local user group, be it
Linux, Java, or any other Community. If you want a Debian or a Fedora
sticker at an event, usually you pay for it. Most of the time, they order
enough quantities to have a discount, and then sell the swag at the same
price, keeping the benefit. We are not allowed at the moment to do that for
Ubuntu Studio. But you made a point: it is now clear that don't understand
anything about local user groups and community involvement. However,
communities are actually the heart of open source software. And wearing
swag is how you show you are active in a community.

I bet I understand more about design and communication than you ever

> will be able to understand. You are naive and your naive ideas add a
> bad taste to FLOSS.
>

Well, actually, design and communication for FLOSS is my job for many
years. And at the moment, I am working for the Eclipse Foundation, the most
important Java technologies ecosystem and community. I am also part of the
staff at http://www.communityleadershipforum.com/, I am invited to write a
series of article for opensource.com this fall, and I spoke about community
management at many floss events, including Eclipse Con (before I was hired
by Eclipse), OW2con and Paris Open Source Summit. I teach Floss at the
University in my area. In the past, I have been moderator for Framasoft.org
forum, the most important french forum about FLOSS. And in 2006 I was at
Ubuntu Developer Summit at Google headquarters, invited by Canonical to
make Ubuntu Studio official. I was also very active in my Ubuntu local user
group (Lyon, FR) before moving to an other city. And I have a master in B2B
marketing.

I bet that if all those people trust me, this is because I know what I am
speaking about. This is because I have records of my achievements. I am not
naive, I am speaking about concrete experience of communication and
community management in Floss.

You want examples of proud people being part of a community? Redhat: some
employees are so proud to work for them, that they tattoo the logo on their
body (You think they are stupid, maybe?). Most Eclipse, Drupal and
Wordpress contributors/enthusiasts I know have stickers on their backpack
and laptops and wear shirts at conferences. And outside Floss: in
motorcycle clubs, members are wearing the club jacket with badges about
their rank and achievements (this is gammification). Soccer fan wearing
their club/player shirt in the streets. They are plenty examples. Just look
around you when you go outside.

If you are not proud enough to wear a Ubuntu Studio shirt, it means that
you are perhaps a contributor, but you are not active in the community and
you are not interested to develop it. Set answer is clear on this point.


> For what purpose do you want to advertise clothes? Linux Mint is one of
> the most worse distros I know. It's exactly this point, everybody
> knows it, everybody loves it and all users ask for support on channels
> that have nothing to do with Mint, because there is no huge experienced
> Mint community and there's no good support by Mint forums or mailing
> lists and I already mentioned that Ubuntu Studio Wikis are weak, too
> and regarding the idiotic policy that they cannot be as simple edited as
> every other serious Wiki, this is something much more important than
> ridiculous clothes.
>

Again, you play on words. I don't want to advertise. I told you already
this is not advertisement but information. I want to inform that Ubuntu
Studio exists for people who are interested. I want to show that we are an
active community. I want to build a community, I want to attract new
contributors and new users. And YES!!!!! clothes are part of this.

Like you, I don't like Mint (one thing we agree, at least). But even with
all the drawbacks, this is one of the most popular distribution at the
moment, because people like it. You should remember that back in 2004/2005,
at the beginnings of Ubuntu, there was no great support neither, and users
where looking for support on Debian mailing lists, and other floss forums.
Then, Canonical hired Jono Bacon and other people to build the Ubuntu
community. And in 2006/2007, Ubuntu forums, wikis, Ubuntu local user
groups, in many languages, were available to help. I can tell because I was
already active at this time. I helped on forums, IRC, install parties,
events, e.g demonstrating Ubuntu Studio in Paris for Ubuntu release party.


> Btw. please explain what the money you spend in around 10 years have to
> do with this shop. Is there some relation? Why do you mention this? It
> becomes more and more suspect.


It seems that you have an issue with money. But Floss is about money,
actually. Do you think that developers are really doing that for free? Even
Richard Stallman sold Emac copies at the beginning of GNU. People
contributing to Floss, most of the time, are paid to do so by their
employers, because they build a business on Floss. Why do you think Mozilla
has been created? Because Netscape was the only good web browser for Unix,
and IBM, Sun and HP needed a browser for Unix workstation users after
Netscape bankrupted. Big companies are actually financing Floss, because
this is strategic. And this is not just with giving money to foundations,
but also hiring skilled people to contribute. Ralf, I really hope you know
and understand that.

Now, I can explain why I spent my money in Ubuntu Studio: because free
software is not free like a free beer. Do you know why the RME pci sound
cards and or firewire sound cards are working with Ubuntu, and Ubuntu
Studio? Because in 2006, I purchased RME, Echo sound cards (and trust me,
that's expensive) and other devices like that with MY money, to test,
report bugs and get the alsa drivers fixed for Debian based distributions.
I rented DV cameras to complete the doc about firewire kernel modules (only
hard drive worked at this time). I even gave away some hardware to
developers/packagers. I will never see again this money, and I don't care:
Ubuntu Studio is working. Spending this money was the only way to achieve
that.

And you, what do you do for Ubuntu Studio? What did you do in Floss? Why
you think you already know everything about communication? Please tell me,
I am very curious, I would like to understand who you are, and in what
field you are a specialist. Or please shut up and stop to answer to this
thread.




> Regards,
> Ralf
>
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