[Ubuntu-SG] [Bulk] Re: South-East Asian FOSS Collaboration

John Thng johnthng83 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 14 10:13:22 BST 2008


On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Maung Myat Thu @ Billy Aung Myint <
billy at ubuntu.sg> wrote:

> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 14:15 +0800, Muhammad Heidir wrote:
> > This debate can go on forever. Can we have a light at the end of the
> > tunnel? How and where do we start?
> > Debates are good, but if action is taken, even better!
>
> Indeed! We aren't definitely NATO!! :P SFD will be a good start.
>
> >
> > Like I said before, we don't have to force people to adopt FOSS
> > entirely. There are ways to entice people to be interested with FOSS.
> > Instead of babbling about the qualities and history of FOSS, we show
> > them what FOSS can do, how it looks like, how to do stuff faster.
>
> Its easier said than done , for a good reason. In school , costs are
> hidden. When I was in poly , I think I said this before ?? , software is
> free ... literally. You can always reinstall windows,office,visual
> studio,dreamweaver,flash,norton and so on at the IT support centre , for
> free , for unlimited times.
>
> How are you going to convince those kids about costs? Mind you this is
> not just a talk , installfests , talks and showcases have been done at
> NP , TP and RP by LUGS and poly groups for about 3 years. The result is
> always the same. They love the philosophy and software but they love
> counter-strike better!
>
> >
> > Appearance is what people look for the first time they see a desktop.
> > Next is about usage. Third will be compatibility. From my point of
> > view, these are the most basic stuff that a user looks for when
> > testing a new application.
>
> I will have to disagree there. If appearance is the what people look for
> then nobody would have used win3.1 or Linux until very recently. For a
> longggg time , Linux didn't even have a graphical installer , never mind
> a pretty desktop.
>
> For a long time , pc = windows. Thats what happened and thats what we
> are trying to reverse. Not windows or pretty desktop or anything. Its
> the mindsets that we need to change. Linux today can be as pretty as
> windows and mac is even prettier. If this is the case , mac would be the
> number 1 OS.
>
>
> >
> > If the Government isn't going to adopt FOSS, then too bad. But we
> > gotta take action to educate the general public. Make them know about
> > alternatives. Make the alternatives available for them. Tell them its
> > free!
>
> Windows IS free. Both legally when you are a student and illegally when
> you are out of school. The ending is that unless govt stop spending
> public funds for replaceable goods such as MS office and use the money
> for public , nothing much will happen here. Does LUGS and everyone of us
> contribute to public education about alternatives to windows?
> Definitely! Does that made people to use Linux? Not really.
>
> Also , even if you use openoffice,firefox,gimp and so on and using them
> on Windows , we still lose. That will discourage companies to making
> Linux compatiable drivers/software/games.
>
> We can talk about what open source means but not everyone is interested
> in IT. My mum just wants to send the damn email , not listen to why
> outlook is not available in Linux and why is using outlook is security
> risk and why M$ is a big bad monopoly.
>
> Schools have to take the lead and hopefully sfd2008 is a good start.
>
> regards
> billy
>
> >
> > C'mon guys, we don't want to be NATO(No Action Talk Only).
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 12:17 +0800, John Thng wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Maung Myat Thu @ Billy Aung Myint
> > > <billy at ubuntu.sg> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >         For this , you must look from the govt point-of-view too.
> > >         Why would they
> > >         send message to businesses that Singapore prefer Free stuff
> > >         over their
> > >         products? Unlike US and China who can do whatever they want
> > >         with foreign
> > >         companies (mind you , even US govt can't do much with M$)
> > >         Singapore must
> > >         rely on foreign companies to create jobs. The only exception
> > >         is the
> > >         cigarette companies for obvious reasons.
> > >
> > >         As for costs of using M$ software, money must be used
> > >         somewhere.
> > >         Supporting businesses , be it local or foreign , is a good
> > >         way to
> > >         attract foreign companies and also encourage local
> > >         businesses. Singapore
> > >         is , if I am not wrong , one of the best and easiest places
> > >         to start a
> > >         company. For all the talk about FOSS , we also must remember
> > >         that if
> > >         every school and institutions and govt ministries uses
> > >         FOSS , companies
> > >         (who are in business of making money) will think twice about
> > >         setting up
> > >         a HQ here.
> > >
> > >         A lot of business , as much as I hate to say it , depends on
> > >         microsoft.
> > >         Even local company , creative, isn't Linux friendly no
> > >         matter how much
> > >         complain they get. That says a lot about how businesses
> > >         think about
> > >         microsoft and FOSS in general. In short , you gotta spend
> > >         money to make
> > >         money and spending in microsoft , even if its mean getting
> > >         the children
> > >         becoming a slave to an entity(be it microsoft or cigarette
> > >         or whatever)
> > >         is worth it from govt/business point-of-view.
> > >
> > >         So the only way govt will even consider FOSS is that there
> > >         are more FOSS
> > >         companies in Singapore. Either from overseas or home-grown.
> > >         Only that
> > >         way we will have enough balls in our court to show the govt
> > >         that FOSS
> > >         can generate income and also provide jobs for Singaporeans.
> > >         Remember
> > >         that the first thing people will do when they lose their
> > >         rice bowl is to
> > >         riot and govt , if they want to stay in power, must not
> > >         destroy that
> > >         rice bowl. If not who will pay the kind of salaries that
> > >         they get? :P
> > >
> > >         Summary is that , we depends on foreign companies for our
> > >         survival.
> > >         Singapore govt won't move a muscle to show they are
> > >         unfriendly to any
> > >         business. Look at odex and an australian guy who sues
> > >         everyone website
> > >         in Singapore for a obvious patent a few month back.
> > >         Clearly , Singapore
> > >         govt is business friendly and it MUST be business friendly
> > >         for Singapore
> > >         to survive. All Singapore got are people and nothing more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ya, you have a point in paragraph 2.
> > > Ya, if schools, institutions, and govt ministries use FOSS, there
> > > will be more FOSS here due to the effects. As for creative, it does
> > > not support the products of Open Source much in audio too. When will
> > > Creative support OGG? When will Creative support FLAC? It's a leader
> > > in audio last time. Without lossless codec, the sound is not
> > > perfect.
> > >
> > > The problem is money. M$ is daring to reduce the cost of their
> > > package especially in third world countries. How can they earn? They
> > > earn it elsewhere, training and their partners. So this is one thing
> > > that FOSS must know. If they can reduce so far, can FOSS do so too?
> > > That means we might need to advocate FOSS in other areas.
> > >
>
>
Ya ... It's a good thing to plan events 3 months in advance actually.

Ya, in schools much cost are hidden, that's the problem. At home if they
need, they will get it illegally at times. But nowadays in schools maybe use
laptops, so costs are hidden as said by billy.

Anyway those kids are a bit game oriented. Maybe we need to find non-gamers
to advocate first.

Any OS can be modify to look pretty. Example: gOS, DreamLinux.
But as the default ubuntu theme, they should provide types for default
theme.

If there's a study on how much govt and schools spent on proprietary
products here it would help. If we can get lower school fees because of open
source, it would be a good thing.

Ya, using openoffice.org, firefox, gimp, and etc on windows is a good start,
better than nothing. People will transit from windows to linux more easily
rather than scaring them off. This is one group of people.

Notice that if you want 64-bit support, open source products supports 64-bit
more. Firefox 64-bit, I think many windows users are trapped to 32-bit
Firefox instead.

Ya. many of them might care what is the best applications rather than the
open source and free software philosophy. But I have a point in this.
Whenever proprietary software steps over these applications they will switch
to them. This is not the spirit to do it I guess.

Btw, we do not want to create impressions that, running open source tools
might be a bit cheapskate compared to proprietary tools. It should be
treated as fair like proprietary products.(I know in some third world
software piracy plone countries, people like to buy/get pirated proprietary
products more than pirated open source products). We should raise the value.
And especially the most popular firefox, which I believe a lot of people
shouldn't use ie, cos firefox is not on the computer). In schools, they
should bundle firefox alongside with IE ... But I've only seen IE ... That's
stupid bundling. If all the govt and schools, provide open source alongside,
it would help foster more people using open source.

And many don't know about portableapps, which is a good thing to bring out
open source to windows users first.

Btw at times I might want to relate religion on piracy ...
Anyway I found this on google, http://buddhavacana.net/blog/?p=86
And it's singapore related, an interesting read. I dunno might be written by
monk?
And ya ubuntu is mentioned.

Regards
John
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