Moving w3m out of standard

James Dinkel jdinkel at
Tue Jul 1 17:40:27 UTC 2008

Sorry for the very late reply.  I came down with appendicitis, and
then took a trip to New York... anyway...

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:52 AM, Soren Hansen <soren at> wrote:
> I asked why you were do determined to make the install less useful by
> default.

Well, I do see the value of having some "newbie-friendly" things in
there by default.  This is why I would much prefer to have a "bare
install" option available for old-school admins, rather than be the
default (have a bare-install be opt-in, rather than opt-out).  I'm
just putting my 2 cents in on how _I_ prefer a server to be set up.

> Your reply was something like "I'm not very determined", which
> doesn't answer my question at all. You want us to remove groff from the
> standard install, even though you're going to install it yourself.  That
> sure sounds to me like you find groff (probably actually man-db) to be
> useful (otherwise, why would you be installing it), but you want to not
> have it installed by default, thus making the default install less
> useful.

It's not that I prefer man-db to be removed by default, because yes I
do use it.  That doesn't mean everyone uses it though.  I could easily
do without it on my server and save the space by looking up all the
man pages on a workstation, and some other admins may prefer it that
way.  And if it was removed, I wouldn't argue against it because it is
easy enough for me to install it. I say "I'm not very determined"
because while I think w3m is a complete waste of space, I'm fine with
just letting it go and moving on to more important issues.

> I see the usefulness of the minimal install, but this I think this is
> getting ridiculous.  Ubuntu Server is -- after all -- supposed to be for
> human beings, not for embedded systems.
>> There seems to be a lot of praise for the "bare install" option in the
>> installer, and no one has said anything against it.
> Well, you seem to think that it's not bare enough?

I think that Ubuntu JEOS is bare enough.  I'm pretty sure that is what
everyone agrees would be the equivalent of a "bare install" option in
the installer (except without any hardware support stripped out,
keeping the regular -server kernel).  Ubuntu JEOS does not install
man-db, by the way.


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