Directionality without prejudice

[Chris Scaife]

I have now uploaded R2L.2.html at
http://code.google.com/p/speaknumber/downloads/list

The most important revision is an idea to put the order of digits under
control of the translator by offering an alternate set of format specifiers.
This will produce and process digit least significant first in a character
stream. It should be independent of what direction the characters are
displayed.

I also updated the bit about visual margin cue that helps the reader decide
which order bidirectional phrases should be read.


> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 10:09:58 +0200
> From: Shahar Or <mightyiampresence at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Directionality without prejudice
> To: The Ubuntu RTL Team <ubuntu-rtl at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTikXS-WL9gOT_44-WUZ5q0Us_Rj1pvCbPTLoFtfE at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Dear Chris,
>
> Thank you for your work so far.
>
> I began reading the document and posted an issue to the issue system at the
> project.
>
> Blessings,
> Shahar
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Chris Scaife <scaife.chris at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Not that long ago I started a project to make a bidirectional terminal
> > emulator according to the Unicode standards.
> > This was prompted by problems I encountered on a different project
> > I've been having a good think about directionality of text and have just
> > uploaded my R2L.html document.
> > It details my thoughts on the issues and I will greatly value any
> feedback
> > I get.
> > Anyone interested can find it in my original internationalization
> project:
> > http://code.google.com/p/speaknumber/downloads/list
> > There is also a jpg image and a css file that goes with it.
> >
> > Thanks for reading :)
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-RTL mailing list
> > Ubuntu-RTL at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-rtl
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 12 Dec 2010 00:40:43 +1300
> From: Chris Scaife <scaife.chris at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Directionality without prejudice
> To: Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron at gmail.com>
> Cc: Ubuntu-RTL at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTimL8m4ZPUO86Au_UCWZpJQZVzcs-pxepXnUwFYf at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks for that information Yaron,  and also for your positive feedback :)
> It is indeed interesting to learn about how numbers are spoken because I
> don't think that Unicode standard is correct in this respect.
>
> I do hope to proceed with my bidirectional terminal emulator, but have
> discovered that I cannot make it work with things like ncurses library when
> directionality on my display widget is under control of such a complicated
> algorithm. Thus Gtk, Pango and Cairo display code have become a dead end :(
>
> I am currently learning how to use the AGG library which includes excellent
> support for Windows as well as Posix compliant systems. Alas it all takes
> time especially because due to other situations I was not programming for a
> great many years.
>
> I'll try to get on your mailing list now, but I can't read any Hebrew or
> Arabic myself and depend entirely on Google translator
>
> regards,
> Chris Scaife
>
> On 11 December 2010 02:27, Yaron Shahrabani <sh.yaron at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hey Chris! lovely article!
> > To support your claims (Although I'm not a native Arabic speaker) I can
> add
> > that in Arabic you pronounce number in the opposite direction:
> > 0-10 same ol'
> > 11 - Had 'Ashar / Had Ta'ash (The second form is derived from an Ancient
> > Jewish Arabic colloquial spoken mostly by Jewish Iraqian living in Israel
> > like my grand mother)
> > 12 - Thnein Ashar / Thnein Ta'ash
> > 13 - Thlat Ashar / Thlat Ta'ash
> > etc.
> > The difference appear from now on:
> > 20 - 'Ishrin
> > 21 - Wahad (one) u(and) 'Ishrin (twenty)
> > 22 - Tnein (two) u 'Ishrin
> > etc.
> > When it comes to Hundred:
> > 100 - Maia / Mia
> > 101 - [Maia / Mia] u wahad
> > So the reading direction changes along the way meaning that 121 would be:
> > Mi'a u wahad u 'Ishrin
> >
> > That's all about counting in Arabic.
> > I would consult my fellow open source activists and if needed we will
> > translate your document and use it but first I have to send it there.
> > Our mailing list called heb-bugzap and you can subscribe via:
> > http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/heb-bugzap
> > We will discuss about this matter there.
> >
> > Thank you very much,
> > Yaron Shahrabani
> >
> > <Hebrew translator>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM, Chris Scaife <scaife.chris at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Not that long ago I started a project to make a bidirectional terminal
> >> emulator according to the Unicode standards.
> >> This was prompted by problems I encountered on a different project
> >> I've been having a good think about directionality of text and have just
> >> uploaded my R2L.html document.
> >> It details my thoughts on the issues and I will greatly value any
> feedback
> >> I get.
> >> Anyone interested can find it in my original internationalization
> project:
> >> http://code.google.com/p/speaknumber/downloads/list
> >> There is also a jpg image and a css file that goes with it.
> >>
> >> Thanks for reading :)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Ubuntu-RTL mailing list
> >> Ubuntu-RTL at lists.ubuntu.com
> >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-rtl
> >>
> >>
> >
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