RFC: #ubuntu op misuse or not?

Sat May 17 01:46:17 UTC 2014

Thank you for the kind response, Charles.

On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 5:37 AM, Charles Profitt
<indigo196 at rochester.rr.com> wrote:
> Rohan:
>
> Thanks for taking time to write about this to the IRC list. I want to offer some advice that was given to me a long time ago that I found valuable.
>
> advice: When involved in an emotional discussion it is best to step away, regain emotional balance and refocus on the issue in a positive frame of mind.
>
> Specifically:
> Reflect on your actions, words and emotions in this situation.

Yes, I did reflect a lot on this before writing the email.

>      - When re-reading the logs do you feel your involvement helped to move the situation forward in a positive manner?

Yes and no -- as I previously conceded, I definitely could have done
better on the channel. However, I do believe that the issues I brought
up bear some thought without the bias against me for what I said in
IRC. I understand the latter is difficult.

>      - How do you feel the people you were talking too felt?

No less bad than I did talking to them. Hopefully no more. Then again,
if it was only talking this was limited to, I would have had no
concerns with how this played out.
This is mainly about what I feel is misuse of ops by someone.

Thanks again -- your advice on self-reflection is very useful, and I
appreciate it.

>
> I am sure that we would all like to have a happy, friendly and inviting IRC and I believe this is your concern as well.
>
> Charles
>
> ---- Rohan Dhruva <rohandhruva at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi ubuntu-irc,
>>
>> I hang on out #ubuntu as "rohan", generally a lurker -- once in a while I
>> ask questions and answer things I know.
>>
>> Today, I encountered something I found disturbing. There was a
>> misunderstanding between two users, and an op decided to silence one of
>> them. The discussion was civil (no swearing or flooding), but also
>> off-topic. I feel silencing a user in this case is overreaching and rude --
>> especially a user who might have been new to the IRC community (and maybe
>> new to Ubuntu itself).
>>
>> On complaining about this in the channel, I was directed to to talk in
>> #ubuntu-ops, which I joined and then stopped talking on #ubuntu. On the
>> -ops channel (which is logged), I had a few heated words exchanged with the
>> op who originally took the wrong action (in my opinion). Eventually, it
>> boils down to whether words like "blitzkrieg" and "dictator" are offensive
>> or not.
>>
>> Since the logs are public[1][2], I'll cut a long story short: the op chose
>> to ban me from #ubuntu for a week. This was without me talking in #ubuntu
>> or provoking drama in the main channel at all. The reason given was that I
>> was likely to misbehave in #ubuntu, without there having been any evidence
>> of having done so. As the logs will show, I tried to make my point in
>> various ways, sometimes being drawn out. In interest of list readers' time,
>> I can summarise the ensuing discussion as unfruitful and borderline hostile
>> -- in (large) part due to my own insistence of remaining in the channel. I
>> was unequivocally told to leave the channel at multiple times, with various
>> people suggesting I get a life, or my insistent complaining as pathetic.
>>
>> I apologise for an already long email (but as people in the channel will
>> tell you, it's much shorter than reading the whole scrollback!).. but here
>> are the things I wanted to request members' views and comments on:
>>
>> * Is it ok to stifle discussion by silencing one person when an argument
>> seems to be happening in the channel, under the pretext of avoiding drama?
>> ** This is also against the guidelines of when to ban/kick a person --
>> there was no flooding, nor were there any swear words or unappealing
>> language.
>>
>> * Is it ok for an op to ban someone in the main #ubuntu channel for
>> discussion happening in a completely separate channel?
>> ** Especially when the discussion was exactly about the op overreaching:
>> this seems like an obvious conflict of interest. Also, should an op's
>> personal bias towards words like blitzkrieg and dictator be allowed to
>> affect a user's ability to enter a channel?
>>
>> * What can be done to make #ubuntu-ops a more friendly place? The
>> discussion was very obviously hostile, and I was penalised for speaking up
>> against the very two ops I had a problem with, and in general the channel's
>> attitude was "write an email and gtfo, you're just repeating the same
>> things over and over". I don't understand the insistence to leave the
>> channel, nor the very obvious ganging up of the "ops vs. users" -- at least
>> I felt that way from the get-go. After I left the channel, the logs show
>> people suggesting each other to skip reading the scrollback and offer
>> sympathies for people who actually wanted to read it. If that can be
>> written off as humour, I would like to ask why the same kind of humour
>> leads to a ban in #ubuntu.
>> ** This is especially important, because #ubuntu-ops is the first forum in
>> the appeals flow, and the experience there was extremely elitist and
>> hostile.
>>
>> * Why is it so bad to suggest an op be penalised? Why does doing that
>> instantly evoke allegations of being childish and immature (as opposed to
>> people claiming they themselves are intelligent adults)? If an op can ban
>> someone for a week in a completely unrelated channel for discussion in
>> another channel, why is it sacrilege that there should be at least some
>> kind of disciplinary action?
>>
>> * Continuing from the previous question, the general feeling I got is that
>> the accountability of ops in general is not up to the usual Ubuntu
>> standards. Whereas packages in the repo are vetted in several different
>> ways, there seems to be no similar vetting for the whole ops flow. People
>> claiming that "puppies don't die" if an op makes mistakes shows that the
>> general feeling of responsibility seems low. Another way of thinking about
>> this is if that puppies are not going to die anyway, why go out of your way
>> to ban someone for a joke here and there?
>>
>> * Turning the tables onto myself, was I annoying? In short, yes. Could I
>> have done things differently? Yes. Feedback on my behaviour is as much
>> appreciated as the discussion on the above bullet points.
>>
>> If you actually made it this far -- thank you! I am looking forward to
>> hearing other points of view, and as someone on IRC suggested, I will try
>> my best to ensure that this goes better than the discussion on IRC was :)
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Rohan
>>
>> [1]: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/%23ubuntu-ops.html
>> [2]: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/16/%23ubuntu-ops.html
>>
>> --
>> Rohan Dhruva
>

-- 
Rohan Dhruva