RFC: #ubuntu op misuse or not?

Fri May 16 09:47:44 UTC 2014

On 16.05.2014 08:45, Rohan Dhruva wrote:
> Hi ubuntu-irc,
>
> I hang on out #ubuntu as "rohan", generally a lurker -- once in a 
> while I ask questions and answer things I know.
>
> Today, I encountered something I found disturbing. There was a 
> misunderstanding between two users, and an op decided to silence one 
> of them. The discussion was civil (no swearing or flooding), but also 
> off-topic. I feel silencing a user in this case is overreaching and 
> rude -- especially a user who might have been new to the IRC community 
> (and maybe new to Ubuntu itself).
>
> On complaining about this in the channel, I was directed to to talk in 
> #ubuntu-ops, which I joined and then stopped talking on #ubuntu. On 
> the -ops channel (which is logged), I had a few heated words exchanged 
> with the op who originally took the wrong action (in my opinion). 
> Eventually, it boils down to whether words like "blitzkrieg" and 
> "dictator" are offensive or not.
>
> Since the logs are public[1][2], I'll cut a long story short: the op 
> chose to ban me from #ubuntu for a week. This was without me talking 
> in #ubuntu or provoking drama in the main channel at all. The reason 
> given was that I was likely to misbehave in #ubuntu, without there 
> having been any evidence of having done so. As the logs will show, I 
> tried to make my point in various ways, sometimes being drawn out. In 
> interest of list readers' time, I can summarise the ensuing discussion 
> as unfruitful and borderline hostile -- in (large) part due to my own 
> insistence of remaining in the channel. I was unequivocally told to 
> leave the channel at multiple times, with various people suggesting I 
> get a life, or my insistent complaining as pathetic.
>
> I apologise for an already long email (but as people in the channel 
> will tell you, it's much shorter than reading the whole scrollback!).. 
> but here are the things I wanted to request members' views and 
> comments on:
>
> * Is it ok to stifle discussion by silencing one person when an 
> argument seems to be happening in the channel, under the pretext of 
> avoiding drama?
> ** This is also against the guidelines of when to ban/kick a person -- 
> there was no flooding, nor were there any swear words or unappealing 
> language.
>
> * Is it ok for an op to ban someone in the main #ubuntu channel for 
> discussion happening in a completely separate channel?
> ** Especially when the discussion was exactly about the op 
> overreaching: this seems like an obvious conflict of interest. Also, 
> should an op's personal bias towards words like blitzkrieg and 
> dictator be allowed to affect a user's ability to enter a channel?
>
> * What can be done to make #ubuntu-ops a more friendly place? The 
> discussion was very obviously hostile, and I was penalised for 
> speaking up against the very two ops I had a problem with, and in 
> general the channel's attitude was "write an email and gtfo, you're 
> just repeating the same things over and over". I don't understand the 
> insistence to leave the channel, nor the very obvious ganging up of 
> the "ops vs. users" -- at least I felt that way from the get-go. After 
> I left the channel, the logs show people suggesting each other to skip 
> reading the scrollback and offer sympathies for people who actually 
> wanted to read it. If that can be written off as humour, I would like 
> to ask why the same kind of humour leads to a ban in #ubuntu.
> ** This is especially important, because #ubuntu-ops is the first 
> forum in the appeals flow, and the experience there was extremely 
> elitist and hostile.
>
> * Why is it so bad to suggest an op be penalised? Why does doing that 
> instantly evoke allegations of being childish and immature (as opposed 
> to people claiming they themselves are intelligent adults)? If an op 
> can ban someone for a week in a completely unrelated channel for 
> discussion in another channel, why is it sacrilege that there should 
> be at least some kind of disciplinary action?
>
> * Continuing from the previous question, the general feeling I got is 
> that the accountability of ops in general is not up to the usual 
> Ubuntu standards. Whereas packages in the repo are vetted in several 
> different ways, there seems to be no similar vetting for the whole ops 
> flow. People claiming that "puppies don't die" if an op makes mistakes 
> shows that the general feeling of responsibility seems low. Another 
> way of thinking about this is if that puppies are not going to die 
> anyway, why go out of your way to ban someone for a joke here and there?
>
> * Turning the tables onto myself, was I annoying? In short, yes. Could 
> I have done things differently? Yes. Feedback on my behaviour is as 
> much appreciated as the discussion on the above bullet points.
>
> If you actually made it this far -- thank you! I am looking forward to 
> hearing other points of view, and as someone on IRC suggested, I will 
> try my best to ensure that this goes better than the discussion on IRC 
> was :)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Rohan
>
> [1]: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/15/%23ubuntu-ops.html
> [2]: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/05/16/%23ubuntu-ops.html
>
> -- 
> Rohan Dhruva
>
>
>
Hi Rohan,

though I wasn't even on IRC that time, I suggesst to just calm down and 
give it some time.
All people over/underreact here and then, and people actually working or 
maintaining are
often short of time and then have a lack of patience. If I'm more a 
hangaround, I can tolerate
my human environment better, as if I'm up to something and then getting 
distracted or even
disturbed. Also one can PM if users (which usually first twinker before 
any other action)
already asked, before ops marching in, telling same. Your mail is quite 
long as you mentioned,
good idea to attach logs.
In my opinion all this *nix-channels have a more or less (as of skilled)
technical part, and other channels for social,religion,information, or 
even kind of rantings
on this and other servers. I know from myself how one can feel to get 
silenced, often
not even knowing if other user(s) complained or if it was  just the view 
of a stuff-member.
Don' t take it too serious, as I wasn't there can't tell about the 
channel-clima, and channels
and servers differ in attidue, if they have a focussed topic or not.

Martin

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