Stepping down from the IRC team

[Dave Walker]

Joseph Price wrote:
> 2009/9/4 Dave Walker <DaveWalker at ubuntu.com>:
>  
>>  I don't believe
>> it is conducive at this stage to mention individual names, and/or
>> actions.
>>    
>
>  
>> I believe first, that we need to recognise there is a negative
>> issue, and not try to sweep it to one side.  Once we have recognised the
>> issues within the team, we can then attempt to look at the causes of
>> these and allow the discussion to flow as necessary.
>>    
>
> I believe these two statements, (one following on from the other)
conflict.
>
> Can we stop with wishywashyness and start calling people up on
> actions? Talking about general feelings and trends months after the
> fact won't help.
>
> We've got a lovely process to do so, which we've both referenced earlier.
>
> As I said in my previous email, please can we follow the dispute
> resolution process to resolve issues?
>
> I haven't had anything from you to the irc-council inbox.
>
> This process is not new.
>
> You've raised the point that you don't like the new idling policy.
> Yes, I too have seen some people leave that I don't want to disappear.
> I hope they will stick in #ubuntu-irc though and utilise that channel
> for general irc-ness. If you want to discuss this further, then cool!
> Lets start a new thread, or add it to our next meeting agenda.
>
>  
Hi Joseph,

I'm saddened you are of the opinion that the statements you quote are
conflicting.  I had hoped my previous mails to this list made it
somewhat obvious for my reasons to not point fingers at individuals.  I
do not believe that this is a problem with the individual level, but
rather a cultural issue, and in some ways an ethos that has built with
time.  Further, pointing fingers at this stage could easily turn the
thread into a "witchhunt", which I am keen to avoid.

Martin mentioned in one of his mails that he was unable to explicitly
describe the issue, and I fully reognise his point.  It's not an issue
that can be pinpointed easily with the one or two examples.  It has
greater breadth, and I'm unsure how this could not have been noticed by
others.

I do not believe my statements were "wishywashy", I was trying to avoid
this.  So i apologise if that is the impression it conveyed.  Trends can
only be formed following time, and it is largely based on feelings.  As
I said in my previous email to the list, the people that have noticed
this are not limited to one or two individuals.  As I believe the root
of the cause to be cultural, rather than individual actions; it would be
unfair, and non-reflective of the issues I am trying to raise by quoting
multiple minor gripes.

How many operators have been lost now, through either infighting or
generic disagreements?

You mentioned that there is a "lovely process".  This is really
subjective, I'm not sure it is fit for purpose, in many scenarios.  I'm
not aware of a situation where the Appeal / Dispute Resolution Process
[0] has ever been proved to yield a good result.

As I've mentioned in my two previous emails to this list; I'm calling
for an open calm debate.  I'm finding it increasingly frustrating that
members of the IRC council would rather try and solve this issue in
private emails to a closed list.  We are consistently seeing this or
similar issues plaguing this team.  I believe the only way we can remedy
this is by an open debate.

If you can provide a reason why having this discussion on a closed list
at an individual level directed to 5 members of the IRC Council will
provide a more enriched and useful outcome to having an open discussion
amongst the whole team (and other subscribers to the "Ubuntu IRC issues
discussion list") is more suitable, other than referring to the policy -
I would be pleased to hear it, and happily abide by it.

At this stage, I believe it's possibly more constructive to try to
establish the initial issues in email, rather than the real time nature
of an IRC based meeting.  This allows people to put careful thought, and
hopefully a fruitful discussion.  I'm not claiming to have a definitive
list of the issues, or the resolutions.  What I am hoping to do, is
cultivate people being able to present reasoned arguments in an open
manner.  I'm aware this is a contentious issue, and I wish to avoid
direct attacks.  For this reason, as I stated in my previous mail - I
would like to see agreement that there is a negative issue surrounding
the team, please can we either agree that there is, or provide a
suggestion why myself, and many others believe this to be case?

I haven't sent emails to the irc-council regarding this thread, and
considering that i'm of the opinion that an open debate is a better
solution, I'm not sure how this would be advantageous.  It's important
to note that members of the IRC council are equally members of Ubuntu
IRC operators team, therefore it's reasonable to assume that they all
will see this thread without the council being specifically included.

I'm not sure how creating a new thread will help remedy this issue, and
therefore I'm happy to continue posting to this thread.  However, if you
feel this will help then please do create a new one in your reply. 
However, it would be appreciated if the points I have raised could be
considered in a reply.

I am not satisfied that comments from some fellow members in the
#ubuntu-ops channel regarding this issue is constructive.  This morning
there was a clear reference to either myself or Martin being refered to
as both a "drama llama" and then a "Guanaco".  This is exactly the kind
of comments and ridicule that I believe is limiting others willingness
to get involved in this debate.  This morning I had a private message
from someone that hasn't been involved with this thread who wrote a
reasoned reply, and decided not to send it as they felt it would (in
their words) "fall on deaf ears".

Whist desperately I want these issues put to bed; without actually
resolving them, I fear we will inevitably see further disagreements, and
leading to the team being dysfunctional and more operatives standing
down.  This cannot be the optimum solution, as ultimately it's the
Ubuntu community userbase that suffers.

[0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcTeam/AppealProcess

Kind Regards,
Dave Walker