Slack

Narcis Garcia informatica at actiu.net
Sun Feb 28 09:43:42 UTC 2016


+1 about me.
I prefer freedom than sparkly features.
Individual and collective freedom is a big and basic feature for IT.
Ubuntu & Gnome projects are very concerned about this.

Do you feel this discussion is not working well due to the mailing list way?


El 28/02/16 a les 10:38, Tim ha escrit:
> 
> 
> On 28/02/16 20:12, Usama Akkad wrote:
>> If a propriety closed source service/tool without an alternative open
>> source service/tool we will use it.
> 
> Right, but what happens when the open source tool is far inferior to the propriety service/tool. Many Foss fans will just boycott the proprietry
> tool and use the inferior open source once. Now this is fine with things like Vmware vs Vbox or Nvidia Blobs vs nouveau, its a personal decision
> and only affects that one person. Its a bit different when you are talking about an entire team/community, what is going to work/be used should
> be a technical decision not a political one. If a proprietry solution is better than the alternatives we should use that, not that I know if
> that applies in this case yet, I have only spent about 5 mins each playing with slack and mattermost.
>>
>> This is the real issue.
>>
>> Just recently Fedora launchpad a project that could be an alternative to
>> Github https://fedoramagazine.org/pagure-diy-git-project-hosting/
> gitlab is open-source (well dual licensed) and self-hosted, but few use it due to the self-hosting requirement.
>>
>> Other things you talked about like facebook or Google+ are decisions
>> that we did not make. Think of it like your cell operator service. does
>> it use open source software? Can you do anything about it?
> My point with that was more that the same people who argue for open source only tools, are mostly the same ones who are using proprietry SaaS
> Solutions on a daily basis.
>>
>> Here you can. it's our choice.
>>
>>
>> On 28-02-2016 00:08, Tim wrote:
>>> If a proprietry closed source service/tool works well, people will use it.
>>>
>>> github is a proprietry service, but is used by many open source projects, why? because it works well.
>>>
>>> Dropbox, Facebook and G+ are all proprietry, yet people use them in masses.
>>>
>>> VMware is proprietry but works ways better than virtualbox, yet most people boycott it, even though the guest side stack is fully open source
>>> (including graphics driver)
>>>
>>> ZFS is open source, but can't be included in the linux kernel because CDDL is incompatible with GPL.
>>>
>>> The politics of copyleft licenses do not really define freedom, rather they have tried to re-define the term.
>>>
>>> On 27/02/16 22:03, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>> GNU/Linux works better because of permanent community survey and
>>>> discussion. It's not possible with closed source tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> El 27/02/16 a les 11:44, Alfredo Hernández ha escrit:
>>>>> Some people choose GNU/Linux because it works better, simple as that.
>>>>> The purpose and inception of Ubuntu GNOME was not to offer a free
>>>>> desktop, but a desktop that works better than the alternatives.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Feb 2016 11:30 am, "Narcis Garcia" <informatica at actiu.net
>>>>> <mailto:informatica at actiu.net>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>     Tim, you are discussing basic principles that concern Ubuntu and Gnome
>>>>>     projects too.
>>>>>
>>>>>     IT freedom is very important for people: to control and decide what your
>>>>>     devices do with your data and communications. Privative software
>>>>>     (gratuitous too) acts the same way as privative services (gratuitous
>>>>>     too); then I want to put at same level the choose of freedom of software
>>>>>     and freedom of services.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Why do many people choose GIMP instead of Adobe?
>>>>>     Why do many people choose HTML instead of Flash?
>>>>>     Why do many people choose mailing lists instead of hosted forums?
>>>>>
>>>>>     Why do we choose Ubuntu and Gnome instead of Windows (embedded too)?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     El 27/02/16 a les 10:39, Tim ha escrit:
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > On 27/02/16 20:19, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>>>     >> People is discussing two completely different focuses:
>>>>>     >> Freedom and Gratuity.
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >> These kind of services (they are services, not software products)
>>>>>     >> gratuity is ever incompatible with freedom (considering personal
>>>>>     data as
>>>>>     >> a monetary value to trade with).
>>>>>     > Yes, I am not a fan of further fragmenting the comms channels, but
>>>>>     people ask for these things, and I guess if it takes off, it could
>>>>>     be better.
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >> I prefer GNU/Linux (including Ubuntu and Gnome) than Windows or MacOS
>>>>>     >> because of freedom matter, including better control over my
>>>>>     contacts, my
>>>>>     >> documents and logs, my localization, preferences, activities, etc.
>>>>>     > Freedom comes at a cost, GPL is like a cancer, while it really got
>>>>>     the whole open source movement going, these days it seems to cause
>>>>>     more harm
>>>>>     > than good. I predict it will be obsolete in 10 years. I think in
>>>>>     the long term the more permissive BSD/MIT licenses will win out, but
>>>>>     that is
>>>>>     > just my opinion.
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >> Services with AGPL licenses concern this matter too.
>>>>>     >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_under_the_GNU_AGPL
>>>>>     > It should be pretty clear by now that open standard services are a
>>>>>     non-starter look what happened to XMPP, look at what github has done
>>>>>     > proprietry extensions.
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     > Then consider the AGPL is incompatible with GPL, GPLv3 is a mess
>>>>>     and incompatible with GPLv2. Its a minefield out there, The freedom
>>>>>     that GNU
>>>>>     > promotes is costing more than the actual freedom gained.
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >>
>>>>>     >> El 27/02/16 a les 06:18, Khurshid Alam ha escrit:
>>>>>     >>> Hi,
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>> Slack is quite efficient I think. You can have moderated
>>>>>     channels and
>>>>>     >>> public channels (still requires a slack id though). It is always
>>>>>     better
>>>>>     >>> to go with something that have some sort of notification systems for
>>>>>     >>> mobile and desktops. Free service includes browsing 10k most recent
>>>>>     >>> messages (rest are archived). Shouldn't that be enough?
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>> Btw, is there a telegram group for Ubuntu-Gnome? I couldn't find
>>>>>     it. May
>>>>>     >>> I also join?
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>> Thanks.
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Leo Francisco
>>>>>     <lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>
>>>>>     >>> <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk
>>>>>     <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>>> wrote:
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>     Thanks for that Popey. Will have a play with Mattermost when
>>>>>     I get a
>>>>>     >>>     chance.
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>     We should have a look at this, even if it's just for fun.
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>     Leo
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>     On 19/02/16 13:32, Alan Pope wrote:
>>>>>     >>>     > On 19 February 2016 at 13:14, Leo Francisco
>>>>>     <lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>
>>>>>     <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>>>
>>>>>     wrote:
>>>>>     >>>     >> There are open source alternatives that may be worth
>>>>>     exploring
>>>>>     >>>     >> MatterMost and RocketChat. There's so much hype around
>>>>>     Slack atm, not
>>>>>     >>>     >> sure what the long term viability of it is. It's
>>>>>     basically fancy modern
>>>>>     >>>     >> proprietary IRC.
>>>>>     >>>     >>
>>>>>     >>>     >> I would always be more enthused by an open source
>>>>>     solution for the usual
>>>>>     >>>     >> reasons.
>>>>>     >>>     >>
>>>>>     >>>     > On the community team we've been evaluating some of these
>>>>>     new /
>>>>>     >>>     > fashionable / interesting methods of communication. Slack
>>>>>     is already
>>>>>     >>>     > available at the following URL, but requires an @ubuntu or
>>>>>     @canonical
>>>>>     >>>     > email address I believe. It might be possible to be
>>>>>     invited to join if
>>>>>     >>>     > you don't have one of those though, they're just the
>>>>>     pre-configured
>>>>>     >>>     > domains I believe.
>>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>>     >>>     > http://ubuntu.slack.com/
>>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>>     >>>     > We've also been looking at Mattermost, which is a free
>>>>>     software tool
>>>>>     >>>     > very much like Slack. I spun up a test instance at the
>>>>>     following URL
>>>>>     >>>     > which people are welcome to play with:-
>>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>>     >>>     > https://mattermost.popey.com/ubuntu/
>>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>>     >>>     > No guarantees it will stay up, as we're just evaluating
>>>>>     it, but feel
>>>>>     >>>     > free to join and have a poke around or make a channel for your
>>>>>     >>>     > team/group.
>>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>>     >>>     > Cheers,
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>     --
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>>>>>     >>>     Ubuntu-GNOME at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>     <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME at lists.ubuntu.com>
>>>>>     <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>     <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME at lists.ubuntu.com>>
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>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >>>
>>>>>     >
>>>>>     >
>>>>>
>>>>>     --
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>>>>>
>>>
> 
> 



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