Slack

Tim darkxst at fastmail.fm
Sun Feb 28 09:38:03 UTC 2016



On 28/02/16 20:12, Usama Akkad wrote:
> If a propriety closed source service/tool without an alternative open
> source service/tool we will use it.

Right, but what happens when the open source tool is far inferior to the propriety service/tool. Many Foss fans will just boycott the proprietry
tool and use the inferior open source once. Now this is fine with things like Vmware vs Vbox or Nvidia Blobs vs nouveau, its a personal decision
and only affects that one person. Its a bit different when you are talking about an entire team/community, what is going to work/be used should
be a technical decision not a political one. If a proprietry solution is better than the alternatives we should use that, not that I know if
that applies in this case yet, I have only spent about 5 mins each playing with slack and mattermost.
>
> This is the real issue.
>
> Just recently Fedora launchpad a project that could be an alternative to
> Github https://fedoramagazine.org/pagure-diy-git-project-hosting/
gitlab is open-source (well dual licensed) and self-hosted, but few use it due to the self-hosting requirement.
>
> Other things you talked about like facebook or Google+ are decisions
> that we did not make. Think of it like your cell operator service. does
> it use open source software? Can you do anything about it?
My point with that was more that the same people who argue for open source only tools, are mostly the same ones who are using proprietry SaaS
Solutions on a daily basis.
>
> Here you can. it's our choice.
>
>
> On 28-02-2016 00:08, Tim wrote:
>> If a proprietry closed source service/tool works well, people will use it.
>>
>> github is a proprietry service, but is used by many open source projects, why? because it works well.
>>
>> Dropbox, Facebook and G+ are all proprietry, yet people use them in masses.
>>
>> VMware is proprietry but works ways better than virtualbox, yet most people boycott it, even though the guest side stack is fully open source
>> (including graphics driver)
>>
>> ZFS is open source, but can't be included in the linux kernel because CDDL is incompatible with GPL.
>>
>> The politics of copyleft licenses do not really define freedom, rather they have tried to re-define the term.
>>
>> On 27/02/16 22:03, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>> GNU/Linux works better because of permanent community survey and
>>> discussion. It's not possible with closed source tools.
>>>
>>>
>>> El 27/02/16 a les 11:44, Alfredo Hernández ha escrit:
>>>> Some people choose GNU/Linux because it works better, simple as that.
>>>> The purpose and inception of Ubuntu GNOME was not to offer a free
>>>> desktop, but a desktop that works better than the alternatives.
>>>>
>>>> On 27 Feb 2016 11:30 am, "Narcis Garcia" <informatica at actiu.net
>>>> <mailto:informatica at actiu.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Tim, you are discussing basic principles that concern Ubuntu and Gnome
>>>>     projects too.
>>>>
>>>>     IT freedom is very important for people: to control and decide what your
>>>>     devices do with your data and communications. Privative software
>>>>     (gratuitous too) acts the same way as privative services (gratuitous
>>>>     too); then I want to put at same level the choose of freedom of software
>>>>     and freedom of services.
>>>>
>>>>     Why do many people choose GIMP instead of Adobe?
>>>>     Why do many people choose HTML instead of Flash?
>>>>     Why do many people choose mailing lists instead of hosted forums?
>>>>
>>>>     Why do we choose Ubuntu and Gnome instead of Windows (embedded too)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     El 27/02/16 a les 10:39, Tim ha escrit:
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>     > On 27/02/16 20:19, Narcis Garcia wrote:
>>>>     >> People is discussing two completely different focuses:
>>>>     >> Freedom and Gratuity.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> These kind of services (they are services, not software products)
>>>>     >> gratuity is ever incompatible with freedom (considering personal
>>>>     data as
>>>>     >> a monetary value to trade with).
>>>>     > Yes, I am not a fan of further fragmenting the comms channels, but
>>>>     people ask for these things, and I guess if it takes off, it could
>>>>     be better.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> I prefer GNU/Linux (including Ubuntu and Gnome) than Windows or MacOS
>>>>     >> because of freedom matter, including better control over my
>>>>     contacts, my
>>>>     >> documents and logs, my localization, preferences, activities, etc.
>>>>     > Freedom comes at a cost, GPL is like a cancer, while it really got
>>>>     the whole open source movement going, these days it seems to cause
>>>>     more harm
>>>>     > than good. I predict it will be obsolete in 10 years. I think in
>>>>     the long term the more permissive BSD/MIT licenses will win out, but
>>>>     that is
>>>>     > just my opinion.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> Services with AGPL licenses concern this matter too.
>>>>     >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_under_the_GNU_AGPL
>>>>     > It should be pretty clear by now that open standard services are a
>>>>     non-starter look what happened to XMPP, look at what github has done
>>>>     > proprietry extensions.
>>>>     >
>>>>     > Then consider the AGPL is incompatible with GPL, GPLv3 is a mess
>>>>     and incompatible with GPLv2. Its a minefield out there, The freedom
>>>>     that GNU
>>>>     > promotes is costing more than the actual freedom gained.
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> El 27/02/16 a les 06:18, Khurshid Alam ha escrit:
>>>>     >>> Hi,
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Slack is quite efficient I think. You can have moderated
>>>>     channels and
>>>>     >>> public channels (still requires a slack id though). It is always
>>>>     better
>>>>     >>> to go with something that have some sort of notification systems for
>>>>     >>> mobile and desktops. Free service includes browsing 10k most recent
>>>>     >>> messages (rest are archived). Shouldn't that be enough?
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Btw, is there a telegram group for Ubuntu-Gnome? I couldn't find
>>>>     it. May
>>>>     >>> I also join?
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Thanks.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 7:39 PM, Leo Francisco
>>>>     <lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>
>>>>     >>> <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk
>>>>     <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>>> wrote:
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>     Thanks for that Popey. Will have a play with Mattermost when
>>>>     I get a
>>>>     >>>     chance.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>     We should have a look at this, even if it's just for fun.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>     Leo
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>     On 19/02/16 13:32, Alan Pope wrote:
>>>>     >>>     > On 19 February 2016 at 13:14, Leo Francisco
>>>>     <lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>
>>>>     <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk <mailto:lists at boywithwings.co.uk>>>
>>>>     wrote:
>>>>     >>>     >> There are open source alternatives that may be worth
>>>>     exploring
>>>>     >>>     >> MatterMost and RocketChat. There's so much hype around
>>>>     Slack atm, not
>>>>     >>>     >> sure what the long term viability of it is. It's
>>>>     basically fancy modern
>>>>     >>>     >> proprietary IRC.
>>>>     >>>     >>
>>>>     >>>     >> I would always be more enthused by an open source
>>>>     solution for the usual
>>>>     >>>     >> reasons.
>>>>     >>>     >>
>>>>     >>>     > On the community team we've been evaluating some of these
>>>>     new /
>>>>     >>>     > fashionable / interesting methods of communication. Slack
>>>>     is already
>>>>     >>>     > available at the following URL, but requires an @ubuntu or
>>>>     @canonical
>>>>     >>>     > email address I believe. It might be possible to be
>>>>     invited to join if
>>>>     >>>     > you don't have one of those though, they're just the
>>>>     pre-configured
>>>>     >>>     > domains I believe.
>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>     >>>     > http://ubuntu.slack.com/
>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>     >>>     > We've also been looking at Mattermost, which is a free
>>>>     software tool
>>>>     >>>     > very much like Slack. I spun up a test instance at the
>>>>     following URL
>>>>     >>>     > which people are welcome to play with:-
>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>     >>>     > https://mattermost.popey.com/ubuntu/
>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>     >>>     > No guarantees it will stay up, as we're just evaluating
>>>>     it, but feel
>>>>     >>>     > free to join and have a poke around or make a channel for your
>>>>     >>>     > team/group.
>>>>     >>>     >
>>>>     >>>     > Cheers,
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>     --
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>>>>     <mailto:Ubuntu-GNOME at lists.ubuntu.com>
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>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >
>>>>     >
>>>>
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>>




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