Online Meeting

[Processing Qbits]

Hmmm, this post keeps getting interesting and opens more topics, though mind
you, we're getting off topic!
I don't even mean off the original topic (which is Online meeting) but the
current topic which is (google having many facilities and people putting all
their e-lives' aspects on google's websites)

But since this is yet another interesting topic too, I couldn't simply
ignore it...

Ignoring the "that's an impossibility" part, which is very debatable...I
completely agree with your opinion on the OpenSource matter, it is indeed a
great and honorable thing, something to lift humanity into something that is
just more than commerce and trade between people.
Something even more than sharing knowledge and giving education!

OpenSource is actually a collaboration between coders, a unity if you may,
to develop good software. It is the essence of humanity and development.

For centuries now, people have been making their own products and selling
them...the only way these type of people developed and started accepting the
modern computer age was to turn their businesses into e-businesses....and to
market them through technology....

OpenSource came to revolutionize this, it came to make every use of this
magical age that we are in, allowing people to work together for one reason,
better products, better perspectives, better experience....in short, for
better programming!

It is not for personal endeavors and selfish needs, but for the greater
good.


And indeed, if someone doesn't like the software that is being presented,
they should have the absolute freedom to seek alternatives or make their own
(unlike some platforms and companies that force its users to seek specific
solutions only)
But I believe the "closed" programmers/supporters, as you name them very
elegantly, would just argue about the monetary benefits of OpenSource as
opposed to ClosedSource, they see it as a loss (money-wise)....this argument
has always defeated me though

If all they think of is money, then I have no reply!

On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Salwan <salwanmax at gmail.com> wrote:

> **
> On 7/4/2011 9:45 AM, Processing Qbits wrote:
>
> I agree with what you say, but you didn't argue about my approach, you
> debated another point which is very interesting to me too.
>
> Who knows if the OpenSource really doesn't have backdoors? If you want to
> take the risk, you can just depend on whoever checks the source code....if
> you don't want to take the risk, you could check it...moreover, Who knows if
> the OS compiled on your machine is the same? Again, that's another choice to
> make, do I compile it? Do I trust whoever did?
>
> Currently, in my stage, I'm still developing/reading the source code of a
> famous microkernel...Minix....which should take me to a tougher kernel,
> perhaps Linux...or another Microkernel....but until then, I have no
> choice....unless perhaps to compile the ubuntu source code....which seems
> rather pointless because I don't know what I've compiled....That's my
> personal story
>
> The original debate's reply with an added challenge....Even if we checked
> and compiled every single OpenSource program on our PC's and Cellphones, we
> would still have ClosedSource software to deal with....not to mention the
> hardware....even if you tamper with the hardware, which is not possible in
> all cases....there might be a misleading chip that you do not know much
> about, if you remove it, it would disable the cellphone...what would you do
> then?
>
> All these questions and challenges lead us to one answer.....Do What You
> Can! If you can do something to protect yourself, anything, do it....taking
> the risk isn't a good option, it shouldn't be an option in the first place,
> but let's just say it's not a good option.
>
> Security theoretically doesn't exist in a pure form, as a challenge, people
> say that there is doesn't exist a 100% secure system....though things like
> OTP (which are very old but still used in secret agencies) (I know that
> because I've read an article yesterday and had a debate over it, I'm not a
> security expert)...challenge that very sentence, but let's just say "There
> isn't a 100% secure system"...
>
> Ok, we accepted that....but does that mean, since everything can be hacked,
> that we don't need security? What do we do?...the answer is "Do What You
> Can!"
>
> So allow me to collectively answer your email with that sentence....no need
> to kill yourself over security and in the end there are ways to still bypass
> your methods, but "Do What You Can!"
>
> Google's power isn't ok for me, I prefer distributing parts of my e-life
> around so that no one has it all....there are ways for people to go around
> it, but "I'm Doing What I Can!"...at least concerning the google issue
>
> On Mon, Jul 4, 2011 at 3:30 AM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> In fact, and you know that, Android and Simbian are OpenSource, and you
>> can have full control on your small computer (the smart phone) if you are
>> using any of those OS's. But following the "mo2mra" theory, one of the phone
>> manufactures decided to put an extra tracking/spying piece of code (or
>> hardware), you can never tell, and you have to relay on the QC (FCC, FDA,
>> ...etc).
>>
>> The men responsible of pen tracing the Linux code, may get paid (following
>> the mo2mra theory also), to let a piece of spying code be installed on all
>> of our machines. (Anybody can pen trace, but nobody does ... and nobody is
>> able to do that for the ISO that you download from Ubuntu or Fedora for
>> example, it's already compiled and closed ,,, only few who get a kernel
>> source, compile it, and compile on top of it all what they need, but they
>> can never read all the source code of everything to make sure that there
>> isn't a spy code somewhere). Did you read this<http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2>before? OpenBSD contained a backdoor "in the opensource implementation of
>> IPSec" for TEN years.
>>
>> I'll remind you what I said before, Google's power is ok for me as far as
>> it's not the only power and there is good potential and competitive
>> alternatives.
>>
>> So let's imagine this situation, (who knows may it will happen one day
>> =)), you are the CEO of Google and you want to please your concepts, so what
>> would you change in Google's strategies? putting in mind that you have the
>> responsibility of:
>> (1) Getting a good revenue for the company to survive.
>> (2) Getting a good impact from the company to grow (not disappear like
>> MySpace for example).
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>
>>
>>
>>   On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 05:29, Processing Qbits <
>> processingqbits at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I believe businessmen usually do have more than one cellphone (though
>>> they have it for a different reason and that reason is probably fading with
>>> cellphones having the capability to use more than one chip) but then again,
>>> a cellphone is more like a computer
>>> Why do I choose Linux over Windows? It gives me more control over my
>>> computer....anything that goes wrong, anything that I wish to change...I am
>>> able to
>>> So if I have similar control over my cellphone, I believe it would be
>>> like my computer...
>>>
>>> As much as I respect google, I fear that it is gaining too much power,
>>> but I guess I have to respect other people's opinions too...while your
>>> approach is "if you don't want your secret to be out there, don't put it
>>> there"....my approach would be "if you don't want one company to hold all
>>> your secrets, give a piece to each so that none has it all"
>>>
>>> Your approach: Security by Obscurity
>>> My approach is similar to anonymous emails through 2 or more
>>> remailers....the first will have your real email but your encrypted
>>> message....the last will have your real message and the person it is being
>>> sent to but not your own email
>>>
>>> So I'll just agree to disagree!
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:25 AM, Amahdy AbdElAziz <amahdy7 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> +Islam: Yes I see your point, I mean the mobile that you mentioned,
>>>> usually contains very sensitive data maybe more than the whole web (it
>>>> contains phone numbers of family, friends, SMS, ..etc) and the more advanced
>>>> is the phone, the more information it has, (like emails, businesses,
>>>> calendar, memo, ... NFC? ... location, pictures, ...etc)
>>>> Ok so Google is a bad company, I'm not going to use Android, I'm going
>>>> to use what? Simbian? Windows7? iOS? RIM? ...etc? it's all the same, the
>>>> individual IMO has to choose a company and relay on it (give it some trust)
>>>> [[of course to some extend, I'm saying being cautious from the beginning]].
>>>> IMO also, I won't get Android for family usage, iOS for business, Simbian
>>>> for friends ...etc, no I'll choose one only company at my own risk... or
>>>> else everybody should not use technology because it's risky.
>>>>
>>>> One more interesting example of what Google does, is the monthly email
>>>> they send to me about "Your Latitude Service is ON, be careful!" it's like
>>>> asking "So,, are you going to turn off the latitude account?" my answer is
>>>> always NO keep it ON, I'll never go near "El Haram Street" so I'm ok with
>>>> that =))
>>>>
>>>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>>>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2011/7/2 Islam Hassan <eng.islam_hassan at hotmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>>  @Amahdy: I'm not saying that they're doing that or they're gonna do
>>>>> that, I'm just, as I said, imagining what they can do with it and no one can
>>>>> say they can't. In my opinion, why should any one take the risk, as
>>>>> developers or engineers, we always consider the worst case.
>>>>>
>>>>>  ------------------------------
>>>>> From: amahdy7 at gmail.com
>>>>> Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 05:57:52 +0300
>>>>> Subject: Re: Online Meeting
>>>>> To: ubuntu-eg at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>>>
>>>>> +Islam: I believe NOT in the "mo2amra" theory :D, if I'm one of
>>>>> America's enemy then my e-life doesn't add for them anything. Yes Google may
>>>>> decide to spy on me, but who may not? I don't have the capability to
>>>>> fabricate my own cell phone yet so I have to relay on some companies to do
>>>>> that for me ... :))
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the interesting things made by G+ (yes -so far- they listen and
>>>>> they care up to a very high limit):
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>>
>>>>> *If you're sharing a post with a small circle of people, you can
>>>>> prevent resharing. Click the arrow at the top-right of the post and choose
>>>>> "Disable reshare."*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Will solve the "Send something private to someone, and he FWD's it".
>>>>> This is not an ultimate solution BTW, he still can copy the content and
>>>>> post it again...
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Amahdy AbdElAziz
>>>>> http://www.amahdy.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2011/7/2 Islam Hassan <eng.islam_hassan at hotmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>  @Amahdy:
>>>>> * You say you don't mind if any body else knows what you're doing,
>>>>>  that doesn't mean every on feels the same.
>>>>> * Google CAN know what's going on in your house and between you and
>>>>> your friends. How? Google Android @ Home and Google open accessories CAN
>>>>> CONTROL what happens in your home.
>>>>> * Imagine that google or the american government for example has an
>>>>> enemy. they can track his location and even kill him and make it look like
>>>>> an accident. and by enemy I mean any one who'd be a pain in the throat like
>>>>> some activist or something like that ( I'm just going as far as I can
>>>>> imagine). let's say the american government decide to keep track of all
>>>>> arabs or muslims inside the US for security purposes or something. they can
>>>>> listen to what you do by activating the microphone in your android phone or
>>>>> any thing like that. use your imagination, as I said, when I watched google
>>>>> IO day 1 key note, suddenly, I robot's VIKI jumped into my mind.
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>  The way I see it, open source mentality was never about making absolutely
> perfect secure software. (that's an impossibility actually)
> It was rather a way to share code and build things as a community by
> helping each other and building upon each other's knowledge and experience.
> Nothing more and nothing less.
> Most open source software is driven by the desire to build something better
> than what's available for a specific task, or just to have fun :)
>
> [warning] rant about closed source thinking follows...
> But why did the open source mentality even exist and become a thing?
> because there is the opposite.....
> Everytime I see a developer who thinks that what he writes is sacred
> Alchemy only he can ever figure out and create.. I feel sorry, that kind of
> mentality can only take him so far. Furthermore, I noticed two common traits
> that come with it, the absolute irrational devotion to one and only one
> closed software solution, and that they usually dream about working for
> Microsoft/Oracle one day.
> Coding for them is a secret, not a way of life.
> The ones I know are even very proud about their closeness, I even heard a
> term that a "closed" friend coined to describe that mentality: the black
> box.
> Now, don't get me wrong I'm ok with closeness on the basis that it's a
> personal point of view whether for individuals or companies, why would I
> even care? However,... I care when I see a closed developer deliberately
> misleading a newbie and throwing him into infinite loops, I get angry and
> have to do something about it.</rant>
>
> In the end, if you really really don't like your software (whatever it was)
> you are the only one stopping you from developing your own stuff. If you
> suspect open source software X of having a backdoor and that's really really
> important for you, clone the repo and start reading :)
>
>
>
>
>
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