ubuntu-doc Digest, Vol 68, Issue 5
Peter Kingsnorth
peterkingsnorth at gmail.com
Tue May 18 05:37:02 UTC 2010
Hi Ubuntu-doc,
I'm the kind of person who enjoys being given a task and sticking to it
for a week or two, - please forward any missing or incomplete doc work.
If you forward me some barebones stuff to flesh out doc wise I'd be
happy to oblige..
Pete
On Mon, 2010-05-17 at 23:31 +0100, ubuntu-doc-request at lists.ubuntu.com
wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. LAMP (Phillip Whiteside)
> 2. Re: Docs Team and Ubuntu Manual Project: Toward future
> cooperation (Adam Sommer)
> 3. Re: LAMP (Adam Sommer)
> 4. Re: LAMP (Phillip Whiteside)
> 5. Re: Docs Team and Ubuntu Manual Project: Toward future
> cooperation (Jim Campbell)
> email message attachment
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Phillip Whiteside <phillw at phillw.net>
> > To: Ubuntu Doc <ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > Subject: LAMP
> > Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 23:06:20 +0100
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I don't know if this is included in the wiki area (it doesn't show
> > up with google), but as a fairly recent convert to Ubuntu (9.04) and
> > the changes that have occurred since then. If you consider it worth
> > my learning the new documents system to put
> > on http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p6 (Without the bit
> > about breaking it)
> > and http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p77 onto some
> > area I'd me more than happy to give it a go? If this has already
> > been done please let me know where it is, as the only place I can
> > currently send LAMP wannabies is over to my baby forum. (I would
> > include instructions as to how to cope with magic quotes if they are
> > on a system that still uses them)
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Phill.
> email message attachment
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Adam Sommer <asommer70 at gmail.com>
> > To: Kevin Godby <godbyk at gmail.com>
> > Cc: lyz at princessleia.com, david.planella at ubuntu.com, Ubuntu Doc
> > <ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>, doctormo at gmail.com,
> > ubuntu-manual at lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: Re: Docs Team and Ubuntu Manual Project: Toward future
> > cooperation
> > Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 15:51:07 +0200
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Kevin Godby <godbyk at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > What are your thoughts on this matter? How do you think that
> > we can
> > work together? We think that the solution of 'everyone join
> > the
> > existing Docs Team process' is not directly workable, since
> > it's clear
> > we have some cultural and procedural differences right now
> > -- much as
> > having UMP just fork the Docs Team's content is a bad
> > solution. How do
> > _you_ think the UMP team can improve the working
> > relationship between
> > the two approaches?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quick introduction, I am part of the Ubuntu Docs Team, but my main
> > focus in pretty much exclusively on the Ubuntu Server Guide.
> >
> >
> > I am all for working together in whatever fashion makes sense and
> > will allow for the best documentation possible. At UDS there was a
> > great session about creating some type of "content pool" where
> > content from the Learning Project, Ubuntu Manual, Docs Team, etc can
> > be placed. Each project can then use whatever content they'd like
> > to create the end product they desire. Such as a Help system, PDF,
> > printed book, etc.
> >
> >
> > I think this is a great idea and should hopefully smooth out any
> > wrinkles that have been created between the various teams. In the
> > session Mallard was put forward as a format for the pool content. I
> > don't have any experience as yet with Mallard, but will try to get
> > familiar with it in the coming weeks. Anyway, I think the format
> > and technical details of collaboration are probably best suited to
> > another thread or threads.
> >
> >
> > So as the server guide maintainer I just wanted to reply to your
> > great email, and see where I can help make the entire Ubuntu
> > documentation rock :-)!
> >
> >
> > Thanks again Kevin for starting this thread.
> >
> > --
> > Party On,
> > Adam
> email message attachment
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Adam Sommer <asommer70 at gmail.com>
> > To: Phillip Whiteside <phillw at phillw.net>
> > Cc: Ubuntu Doc <ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > Subject: Re: LAMP
> > Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:56:40 +0200
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Phillip Whiteside
> > <phillw at phillw.net> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I don't know if this is included in the wiki area (it
> > doesn't show up with google), but as a fairly recent convert
> > to Ubuntu (9.04) and the changes that have occurred since
> > then. If you consider it worth my learning the new documents
> > system to put
> > on http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p6 (Without
> > the bit about breaking it)
> > and http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p77 onto
> > some area I'd me more than happy to give it a go? If this
> > has already been done please let me know where it is, as the
> > only place I can currently send LAMP wannabies is over to my
> > baby forum. (I would include instructions as to how to cope
> > with magic quotes if they are on a system that still uses
> > them)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Phill. Thanks for your
> > interest in the Ubuntu documentation.
> >
> >
> > I haven't read through your whole guide as of yet, but if you'd like
> > to improve the Ubuntu Server Guide, reviewing the Lamp Applications
> > and Web Servers sections would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> >
> > All feedback is welcome, and if you'd like help getting your guide
> > integrated with the Ubuntu Server Guide please let me know.
> >
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Party On,
> > Adam
> email message attachment
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Phillip Whiteside <phillw at phillw.net>
> > To: Adam Sommer <asommer70 at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Ubuntu Doc <ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > Subject: Re: LAMP
> > Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 17:34:22 +0100
> >
> > Hi Adam,
> >
> >
> > hope the UDS went well :-) (Everyone seems to be very happy with how
> > it all went). I'd be more than happy to update a part of the Sever
> > Guide that is for those of us who use only one computer and have
> > LAMP installed on the GUI version of Ubuntu. Whilst I agree that it
> > is not suitable for 'production' use because of security concerns,
> > it does provide us with a way of writing and testing our ideas out
> > before we upload them to a server which has 'production' error
> > reporting on (as in report back nothing that may help hackers).
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Phill.
> >
> > On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Adam Sommer <asommer70 at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Phillip Whiteside
> > <phillw at phillw.net> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > I don't know if this is included in the wiki area
> > (it doesn't show up with google), but as a fairly
> > recent convert to Ubuntu (9.04) and the changes that
> > have occurred since then. If you consider it worth
> > my learning the new documents system to put
> > on http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p6 (Without the bit about breaking it) and http://forum.phillw.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4#p77 onto some area I'd me more than happy to give it a go? If this has already been done please let me know where it is, as the only place I can currently send LAMP wannabies is over to my baby forum. (I would include instructions as to how to cope with magic quotes if they are on a system that still uses them)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for taking so long to get back to you Phill. Thanks
> > for your interest in the Ubuntu documentation.
> >
> >
> > I haven't read through your whole guide as of yet, but if
> > you'd like to improve the Ubuntu Server Guide, reviewing the
> > Lamp Applications and Web Servers sections would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> >
> >
> > All feedback is welcome, and if you'd like help getting your
> > guide integrated with the Ubuntu Server Guide please let me
> > know.
> >
> >
> > Thanks again.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Party On,
> > Adam
> >
> >
> email message attachment
> > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > From: Jim Campbell <jwcampbell at gmail.com>
> > To: Kevin Godby <godbyk at gmail.com>
> > Cc: lyz at princessleia.com, david.planella at ubuntu.com, Ubuntu Doc
> > <ubuntu-doc at lists.ubuntu.com>, doctormo at gmail.com,
> > ubuntu-manual at lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: Re: Docs Team and Ubuntu Manual Project: Toward future
> > cooperation
> > Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 17:31:06 -0500
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Kevin Godby <godbyk at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > Dear Documentation Team,
> >
> > On behalf of the Ubuntu Manual team, we wanted to reach out
> > to you to
> > start reconciling our two teams' approaches to creating
> > great Ubuntu
> > documentation.
> >
> > First, a word of deep respect for your work. The Ubuntu
> > Manual Project
> > (UMP) would not exist without you -- we simply would not
> > have a
> > userbase of Ubuntu users without the great help and support
> > tools that
> > you've built over the years that helped nurture people on
> > their path
> > from 'clueless newbie' to involved community members. You've
> > also
> > solved a lot of hard problems related to releasing high
> > quality
> > documentation, on time, release after release after release.
> > Our
> > collective hats off to you!
> >
> > The reason we are writing is that there's been a bit of
> > butting heads
> > between the Docs Team and the UMP team. We've sometimes been
> > too quick
> > to dismiss the complexity of embarking on some of our
> > projects, while
> > we think that you've at times turned slightly too critical
> > of an eye
> > to our 'newcomer' project.
> >
> > We would like to take stock of where we all stand. Clearly,
> > we share a
> > lot of goals and values. We share the goal of educating
> > users about
> > Ubuntu. We all want to improve the comfort in, or the
> > mastery of all
> > subjects of the OS. Both of our projects want our content be
> > accessible to the majority of actual and potential users
> > worldwide. We
> > all want to encourage participation from the larger Ubuntu
> > community.
> > And, finally, we all want to bring together duplicated
> > efforts to
> > ensure a consistent voice, and a collaborative environment
> > of people
> > interested in educating users.
> >
> > At the same time, there are some differences in our
> > approaches as well.
> >
> > Our team feels that there are some unaddressed gaps in
> > Ubuntu
> > documentation. For example, there is a lack of official
> > linear
> > documentation -- a guide, hence the UMP project's manual.
> > There is
> > still a lack of centrally-produced, localized documentation.
> > There is
> > very little visual aid in the docs, and no focus on
> > multimedia.
> >
> > We also felt that the Docs Team's process was somewhat
> > rigid, and too
> > slow for certain types of contributions. While this approach
> > is very
> > consistent with the docs team's emphasis on long-term
> > sustainability
> > and quality of the docs process, there was. in our view.
> > much less
> > emphasis on widening the scope of documentation and
> > simplifying
> > community input.
> >
> > We also felt that there is a place for great tools that
> > could be built
> > to help make the process of contributing much easier. This
> > could take
> > the form of simplified multimedia content creation (cf. the
> > Quickshot
> > tool that we built to simplify capturing screenshots in
> > multiple
> > languages); it could take the form of improving our
> > translation
> > infrastructure or taking advantage of collaborative editing.
> >
> > Finally, and perhaps most acutely, we felt that there is a
> > need to
> > create a top-notch documentation system for public help docs
> > that can
> > replace the help.ubuntu.com model that's somewhat stagnated
> > since
> > Hardy (witness the eerie similarity between
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/8.04 and
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04).
> >
> > Now, and most importantly, please understand that we do not
> > mean that
> > we need to start from scratch -- we do not seek revolution
> > or
> > competition. We do, however, want to achieve our goals,
> > which
> > hopefully means that we find a way to coordinate our work
> > rather than
> > working independently.
> >
> > Here's what we think is necessary for us to work well
> > together. We
> > would certainly like to pursue some improvements to close
> > the
> > perceived gaps in usability, focus, collaboration, etc. Some
> > of this
> > may involve the creation of tools, some of this involves
> > research, and
> > some involves plain old copywriting and maintenance. For the
> > tools
> > portion, we would like to have specific discussions about
> > these tools,
> > namely how to improve the help website, how to merge
> > multiple projects
> > into a single help website, and how to more easily allow
> > community
> > input into the process of writing docs. We would also like
> > to move
> > forward with centrally-managed, localized documentation.
> >
> > What are your thoughts on this matter? How do you think that
> > we can
> > work together? We think that the solution of 'everyone join
> > the
> > existing Docs Team process' is not directly workable, since
> > it's clear
> > we have some cultural and procedural differences right now
> > -- much as
> > having UMP just fork the Docs Team's content is a bad
> > solution. How do
> > _you_ think the UMP team can improve the working
> > relationship between
> > the two approaches?
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Time requires that I be brief, but I've added some notes to your
> > wiki page about a support and learning center [0]. Mozilla Sumo
> > seems to cover most all of what you've requested, and the site code
> > is freely available. I'd recommend taking a look at it if things go
> > that way.
> >
> > With regards to DocBook, Mallard and sharing content via content
> > pools, it seems like Mallard, DITA, and Docbook have a game of
> > rock-paper-scissors going on . . .
> > - Mallard could fare well enough in a "content pool," and is
> > supported by Yelp (the Gnome help browser), but there is no
> > Mallard-to-PDF transform available at this time.
> > - DITA is expressly designed for "content pools," and can be output
> > to PDF (and HTML and epub), but yelp does not currently support
> > DITA, and Gnome is going toward Mallard.
> > - Yelp supports Docbook, and you can ouput to PDF from Docbook, but
> > Docbook is not particularly well-suited to "content pools."
> >
> > With regards to the manual team's use of LaTeX, the output the HTML
> > and PDF is very good, but translations are all done manually. Each
> > of the other markups shown above are XML-based, and can thus be used
> > with existing translation tools.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > [0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-support-and-learning-center#Notes
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