UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager dwelling

Tobin Davis gruemaster at gmail.com
Sat May 7 06:23:03 UTC 2011


Actually, it made it into universe for natty.  And it should be set up
to build when updated.


On Fri, 2011-05-06 at 23:31 +0000, Ramaddan wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have been using Ubuntu fulltime for years now, and have not gone
> back.
> 
> I also tried to take part in developing, but never really had time to
> properly mature in that, so instead, I used to try and tweak lots of
> programs on my system.
> 
> One of my trials was on a Tablet PC which I have been using for a
> while, and I have not liked any of the on board keyboards available,
> except for one:
> http://florence.sourceforge.net/english.html
> 
> I have always wanted it to be included in Ubuntu, but it never came
> round to that.
> 
> I have however had a good relationship with the developer, and he kept
> it always up to date to work on Ubuntu, and I always tested it and
> gave him back feedback, to which he promptly replied and updated the
> code.
> 
> 
> 
> I like the capability to make the keyboard as transparent as needed,
> and the fact it comes up upon trying to type text, as well as some
> other very nice features for a tablet.
> 
> 
> I had only one problem with it, which was when Firefox would suggest
> links, which would go over the keyboard, so I wold disable the firefox
> suggestion feature.
> 
> 
> I have used it for all my work on the Tablet, and set up onboard
> keyboard for login in and to log in when the PC locked, but I'm sure
> with integration, this could also replace onboard completely, but
> requires a bit of help from the DEV team to the developer.
> 
> 
> I upgraded to Natty recently, and I noticed that it was not easy to
> use access the Florence keybaord anymore, due to the change done to
> the Task bar at the top (although I could make the hover icon appear,
> but I personally don't like it).
> 
> 
> So I thought to myself that I can probably contact the developer again
> to update for this change, but I got kind of shy :-)
> 
> 
> Everytime he updates for the changes, but florence is still not in the
> repo nor supported, and I promised him before that I will push this
> through, and I did try, but it never happened.
> 
> 
> So I thought to myself that maybe instead of of once again asking him
> to update and make changes, if I could get anyone from the DEV group
> to try the software out, and tell use what they think.
> 
> 
> I honestly think it is the best out there so far, and many people who
> tried my Tablet agree with this.
> 
> 
> Onboard is just too incumbent and the transparency feature is not
> there, and thus covers the screen all the time, and on Tablets, the
> screen space is essential to be free.
> 
> 
> Also, I noticed that the keyboard does not show up with pressing the
> top left button to show quick program and search, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope to hear what people think after they try it.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Ramaddan
> 
> 
> <ubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote on 7 May 2011, 01:47 AM:
> Subject: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 81, Issue 7
> >Send ubuntu-devel mailing list submissions to
> > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > ubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
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> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of ubuntu-devel digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager -
> > dwelling (Alan Bell)
> > 2. Re: UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager -
> > dwelling (Francesco Fumanti)
> > 3. systemd for 11.10 ? (Thomas Bechtold)
> > 4. UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager - dwelling
> > (Francesco Fumanti)
> > 5. Ideas for the icon panel and menu behaviour (Shane.Nuessler)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 21:05:55 +0100
> >From: Alan Bell <alanbell at ubuntu.com>
> >To: Francesco Fumanti <francesco.fumanti at gmx.net>
> >Cc: Charlie Kravetz <cjk at teamcharliesangels.com>, Ubuntu Devel list
> > <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>, Penelope Stowe <pstowe at gmail.com>,
> > robert.ancell at ubuntu.com, marmuta <marmvta at googlemail.com>, Luke
> > Yelavich <themuso at ubuntu.com>, Alan Bell <"alanbell"@ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Re: UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager -
> > dwelling
> >Message-ID: <4DC30323.9030805 at ubuntu.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> >Hi Francesco,
> >
> >thanks for the email, that was informative and timely.
> >
> >1)
> >The discussions around different options came about because of a 
> >suggestion from the upstream Gnome accessibility team that we should 
> >consider using the 'official' gnome on-screen keyboard which is now 
> >Caribou. So far I have been unable to install caribou and I am not
> sure 
> >what it's good features are really. I think there should be one
> keyboard 
> >that serves as an accessibility tool, is the keyboard for tablets
> and 
> >touchscreens (including multitouch), looks good and can be used for 
> >innovative layouts such as the steno chording layout. One current 
> >challenge is getting the keyboard to type into the unity-3d
> interface 
> >(works fine in unity-2d) and this is mostly a unity issue although I 
> >wouldn't discount the possibility that some integration might need
> to 
> >touch the keyboard (things like the keyboard not zooming in and out
> with 
> >compiz zoom).
> >
> >2)
> > > Does this mean that LightDM is going to replace GDM?
> >no, it means the possibility is going to be discussed at UDS. A lot
> of 
> >things get discussed and sometimes we decide not to do them - or
> maybe 
> >decide to revisit the possibility some releases later.
> >
> >3)
> >that is a good point and some interesting suggestions, we already
> know 
> >it is too hard to start onboard without the use of a hard keyboard,
> it 
> >would be ideal if dwelling could be turned on without clicking.
> (still 
> >not quite as bad as asking people to press space when they see the
> icon 
> >at the start of the installer to get to the screen reader install)
> >
> >Alan.
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 20:20:15 +0200
> >From: Francesco Fumanti <francesco.fumanti at gmx.net>
> >To: Robert Ancell <robert.ancell at canonical.com>
> >Cc: Charlie Kravetz <cjk at teamcharliesangels.com>, Ubuntu Devel list
> > <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>, Penelope Stowe <pstowe at gmail.com>,
> > robert.ancell at ubuntu.com, marmuta <marmvta at googlemail.com>, Luke
> > Yelavich <themuso at ubuntu.com>, Alan Bell <"alanbell"@ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Re: UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager -
> > dwelling
> >Message-ID: <4DC43BDF.10200 at gmx.net>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> >Hi Robert,
> >
> >Thanks for your reply.
> >
> >On 06.05.2011 07:52, Robert Ancell wrote:
> >> On 05/05/2011 06:55 PM, Francesco Fumanti wrote:
> >>> 2) Display manager
> >>>
> >>> I have come accross the following blueprint for oneiric:
> >>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-lightdm
> >>>
> >>> Does this mean that LightDM is going to replace GDM?
> >> That is my proposal. The decision will be made at UDS, however at
> the
> >> last UDS there seemed good support for it (I delayed the use due to
> >> Unity last cycle) so I am hopeful that people will agree it is
> worth
> >> changing to.
> >
> >So chances might be good for it to be adopted.
> >
> >>> I just ran a test session in natty where I replaced GDM with the
> >>> LightDM display manager available in the repository, but I did not
> get
> >>> beyond the login screen, because there was no explicit way to
> enable
> >>> an onscreen keyboard...
> >> Thanks for testing. a11y is a high priority requirement for LightDM
> and
> >> I'm looking for requirements. If you're able to attend the UDS
> session
> >> that would be awesome as I need experienced a11y people to give me
> a
> >> list of requirements and good feedback.
> >
> >Sorry, I am not attending UDS.
> >
> >Concerning the implementation of the accessibility features, I
> suppose that
> >the best will be to have contact with several people in order to
> cover the
> >different kinds of accessibility needs. As a pointer only user, I can
> tell
> >you how I imagine things for people that control the computer with
> only a
> >mouse (with and without a hardware button to click).
> >
> >Unfortunately, I can't help you with the accessibility features
> needed by
> >switch users, or visually, auditive or cognitive impaired users.
> >
> >Recently, I read the following on a gnome list: the other of that
> email (I
> >do not know him) might be of some help concerning switch access.
> >http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-accessibility-list/2011-May/msg00000.html
> >
> >
> >And last, but not least:the Accessibility Team of Ubuntu...
> >
> >>> There is already a little menu to increase the font size and set a
> >>> high contrast. Thus, I would like to ask whether this menu could
> not
> >>> be enhanced with more accessibility features; maybe also turning
> it
> >>> into a dialog. A starting point might be the accessibility
> features
> >>> available in the GDM accessibility dialog.
> >> Absolutely. The current implementation is very basic, and any new
> login
> >> screen that would be released in Ubuntu will require a design and
> these
> >> features implemented.
> >
> >Great,:-)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Francesco
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 3
> >Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2011 18:24:58 +0200
> >From: Thomas Bechtold <thomasbechtold at jpberlin.de>
> >To: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: systemd for 11.10 ?
> >Message-ID: <1304180698.2689.1.camel at salbei>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >i just want to know if there are any plans to replace upstart[1] with
> >systemd[2] for 11.10?
> >
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Tom
> >
> >
> >[1] http://upstart.at/
> >[2] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd
> >
> >-------------- next part --------------
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> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 4
> >Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 20:23:18 +0200
> >From: Francesco Fumanti <francesco.fumanti at gmx.net>
> >To: Ubuntu Devel list <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >Cc: Gerd Kohlberger <lowfi at chello.at>
> >Subject: UDS-O About onscreen keyboard - display manager - dwelling
> >Message-ID: <4DC2EB16.9010105 at gmx.net>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> >
> >Hello,
> >
> >
> >First of all, I hope that I am addressing this email to the
> appropriate
> >list and people; if not, please forward it to the appropriate place
> or
> >inform me where I should send it.
> >
> >
> >As everybody is probably already knowing, the Ubuntu Developer Summit
> for
> >Oneiric is being held next week. Thus, I would like to take the
> opportunity
> >to draw the attention to a few points of particular interest:
> >
> >
> >1) Onscreen keyboard
> >
> >Browsing around, I found the following log of an irc session and
> would like
> >to remind onboard's features for the case there will be a discussion
> at UDS
> >about replacing it with another onscreen keyboard:
> >http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/04/07/%
> 23ubuntu-accessibility.html#t09:23
> >
> >- Onboard does not need at-spi to run: indeed, it is an onscreen
> keyboard
> >suitable for pointer users (tabletpc users, disabled users,...), that
> can
> >use it for their typing. I don't think that it is worth requiring
> users to
> >run at-spi in order to run a simple onscreen keyboard. (Requiring an
> >onscreen keyboard to use at-spi would also make it impossible to work
> out
> >of the box as at-spi is not enabled by default.)
> >
> >Remark: I think that we should distinguish between users that require
> an
> >onscreen keyboard but are able to control the mouse, and users that
> require
> >an onscreen keyboard but are not able to use a mouse, like people
> using one
> >or more switches to control the computer. The latter probably need an
> >onscreen keyboard able to interact with the GUI like GOK, or caribou
> once
> >it gets finished... (GOK was not good adapted for pointer users,
> which was
> >one of the reasons for the development of onboard.)
> >
> >- It is usable out of the box at GDM and the desktop (if its desktop
> files
> >were not patched by the Ubuntu dev to be hidden);it also supports the
> >unlocking of the screen; for example after the screensaver has taken
> over.
> >
> >- It is possible to perform "virtual modifiers + click" actions, for
> >example to do multiple selections using the shift or control modifier
> and
> >the mouse.
> >
> >- The keyboard layout is defined by xml and svg files, allowing users
> to
> >define their own layouts.
> >
> >- Onboard is currently getting a facelift supporting the use of
> themes in
> >order to improve its look and making it easier to adapt to the look
> of the
> >distribution. You might have a look at the following webpage where I
> posted
> >a few screenshots of what is possible with the new facelift:
> >http://webplaza.pt.lu/frafu/index.html
> >
> >
> >2) Display manager
> >
> >I have come accross the following blueprint for oneiric:
> >https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-lightdm
> >
> >Does this mean that LightDM is going to replace GDM?
> >
> >I just ran a test session in natty where I replaced GDM with the
> LightDM
> >display manager available in the repository, but I did not get beyond
> the
> >login screen, because there was no explicit way to enable an onscreen
> >keyboard...
> >
> >There is already a little menu to increase the font size and set high
> >contrast. Thus, I would like to ask whether this menu could not be
> enhanced
> >with more accessibility features; maybe also turning it into a
> dialog. A
> >starting point might be the accessibility features available in the
> GDM
> >accessibility dialog.
> >
> >However, even the accessibility dialog of GDM is lacking at least one
> >accessibility tool: dwelling.
> >
> >
> >3) Dwelling
> >
> >GNOME and consequently Ubuntu are shipping mousetweaks, a software
> package
> >providing the dwelling fonctionality already for several cycles, but
> both
> >distributions are still lacking a way for dwell users to autonomly
> enable
> >dwelling.
> >
> >Until Ubuntu maverick, the problem could be partly solved for the
> desktop
> >session by adding the dwell applet to the gnome-panel. (The dwell
> applet
> >allowed the user to enable and disable dwelling without having to
> perform
> >any click with the mouse; it also allowed the user to indicate to the
> >dwelling feature, what click type to automatically perform after the
> >dwelling timeout.)
> >
> >What about enhancing the accessibility menu or dialog-icon so that it
> gets
> >activated also by dwelling with the pointer on it (apart from
> activating it
> >by a click); of course, the accessibility menu or dialog would also
> have to
> >contain an item to enable dwelling by only hovering with the pointer
> on
> >that item.
> >
> >This would solve the dwell problem for the login screen. Something
> similar
> >would be necessary in the desktop session. For example, also
> providing a
> >dwellable accessibility menu or dialog-icon in the panel of the
> desktop
> >session.
> >
> >I can imagine that an accessibility menu might not be very welcome by
> >default on the top panel of Unity, so a more subtle approach might be
> more
> >appropriate: only show the accessibility menu or dialog-icon by
> default in
> >the desktop session, when an accessibility feature has been enabled
> during
> >login.
> >
> >I am remaining vague here on purpose because I don't want to fix the
> design
> >of how a user can autonomly enable dwelling in a way that might not
> suit
> >the Unity designer. The main purpose here is to offer dwell users an
> >intuitive and obvious way to enable the dwelling feature by
> themselves.
> >
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Francesco
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 5
> >Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 12:01:35 +1000
> >From: "Shane.Nuessler" <Shane.Nuessler at canberra.edu.au>
> >To: <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Ideas for the icon panel and menu behaviour
> >Message-ID:
> >
> <63F017FC9B34084F8D216E83F9E0184D12B4E139 at amsterdam.ucstaff.win.canberra.edu.au>
> >
> > 
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> >
> >Hi everyone,
> >
> >Been using 11.04 for a few days now and have the following ideas to
> >contribute, sorry no mockups.
> >
> >With multiple apps of varying window sizes open, the app menu makes
> the
> >app name go away when you use it, so the link between the menu and
> which
> >app it's for disappears. You could prepend the app name with the icon
> of
> >the app, and leave the icon up all the time even when the apps menu
> is
> >displaying. That way the menu and the particular app it's for always
> has
> >a visual linkage.
> >
> >
> >I find the slowness of scrolling through app icons on the left panel
> >rather annoying when lots of apps are on it. Getting to the one you
> want
> >takes ages AND you can't see where it is in the list because it's off
> >the bottom of the screen. Idea - The squishing of icons is a great
> idea
> >when mouse is not on the panel, just keep them squiched when mouse
> over
> >and as the mouse goes up and down the side unsquish the ones at the
> >bottom and squish the ones at the top. That way the whole list is
> always
> >in view, and the squishing/unsquishing will be as fast as you move
> your
> >mouse up and down the list! And you can see where your icon is in the
> >stack.
> >
> >
> >Please make auto hide an option for the icon panel. I want to see my
> app
> >icons and what the apps are doing. Thanks. Idea, detect the screen
> res
> >and make a sane default based on the context of the screen res. Big
> >screens default to show, little screens default to auto-hide - but is
> >changeable based on taste.
> >
> >Shane.
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ubuntu-devel-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
> >[mailto:ubuntu-devel-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of
> >ubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Sent: Tuesday, 12 April 2011 4:01 PM
> >To: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 80, Issue 20
> >
> >Send ubuntu-devel mailing list submissions to
> > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
> >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > ubuntu-devel-request at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> >You can reach the person managing the list at
> > ubuntu-devel-owner at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >than "Re: Contents of ubuntu-devel digest..."
> >
> >
> >Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: Test version of Upstart with full chroot support
> > available (Clint Byrum)
> > 2. Re: Test version of Upstart with full chroot support
> > available (James Hunt)
> > 3. Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS (Dustin Kirkland)
> > 4. Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS (Dustin Kirkland)
> > 5. Patch Pilot Report 2011-04-11 (Dustin Kirkland)
> > 6. Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS (Elliot Murphy)
> > 7. Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04 (Scott Ritchie)
> > 8. 11.10 Ubuntu Release - Call for Topics (Kate Stewart)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 08:01:00 -0700
> >From: Clint Byrum <clint at ubuntu.com>
> >To: James Hunt <james.hunt at canonical.com>
> >Cc: ubuntu-server <ubuntu-server at lists.ubuntu.com>, ubuntu-devel
> > <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Re: Test version of Upstart with full chroot support
> > available
> >Message-ID: <1302533777-sup-7603 at fewbar.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >Excerpts from James Hunt's message of Fri Apr 08 08:51:48 -0700 2011:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >> 
> >> Hi All,
> >> 
> >> As a precursor to pushing this update out to Natty next week, I've
> >> updated my upstart-testing PPA with Upstart version 0.9.5-1ubuntu1:
> >> 
> >> ppa:jamesodhunt/upstart-testing
> >> 
> >> Code is here:
> >> 
> >> lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/natty/upstart/fix-chroot-sessions
> >> 
> >> As the name suggests, chroots should now work fully [1], but we are
> >keen
> >> to solicit feedback from the community.
> >
> >FYI, on my natty box when I was running this, installing dbus in a
> >schroot
> >session resulted in upstart consuming all available virtual memory
> and
> >eventually crashing the box.
> >
> >Steps to reproduce:
> >
> >(assuming you've setup schroots w/ mk-sbuild):
> >
> >schroot -c natty-amd64 -u root
> >apt-get install dbus
> >
> >
> >At the 'setting up dbus' point, upstart starts to consume memory at
> an
> >alarming rate.
> >
> >This is likely because the dbus upstart job has a post-start that
> sends
> >USR1 to pid 1, which is supposed to tell it to re-connect to dbus.
> >
> >I believe the bug is because the USR1 handler needs to ignore
> requests
> >to re-connect to dbus from chrooted processes, but I haven't gotten
> very
> >deep in to debugging it yet.
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 16:11:11 +0100
> >From: James Hunt <james.hunt at canonical.com>
> >To: Clint Byrum <clint at ubuntu.com>
> >Cc: ubuntu-server <ubuntu-server at lists.ubuntu.com>, ubuntu-devel
> > <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Re: Test version of Upstart with full chroot support
> > available
> >Message-ID: <4DA31A0F.6060806 at canonical.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >Hash: SHA1
> >
> >On 11/04/11 16:01, Clint Byrum wrote:
> >> Excerpts from James Hunt's message of Fri Apr 08 08:51:48 -0700
> 2011:
> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >>> Hash: SHA1
> >>>
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> As a precursor to pushing this update out to Natty next week, I've
> >>> updated my upstart-testing PPA with Upstart version
> 0.9.5-1ubuntu1:
> >>>
> >>> ppa:jamesodhunt/upstart-testing
> >>>
> >>> Code is here:
> >>>
> >>> lp:~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/natty/upstart/fix-chroot-sessions
> >>>
> >>> As the name suggests, chroots should now work fully [1], but we
> are
> >keen
> >>> to solicit feedback from the community.
> >> 
> >> FYI, on my natty box when I was running this, installing dbus in a
> >schroot
> >> session resulted in upstart consuming all available virtual memory
> and
> >> eventually crashing the box.
> >> 
> >> Steps to reproduce:
> >> 
> >> (assuming you've setup schroots w/ mk-sbuild):
> >> 
> >> schroot -c natty-amd64 -u root
> >> apt-get install dbus
> >> 
> >> 
> >> At the 'setting up dbus' point, upstart starts to consume memory at
> an
> >> alarming rate.
> >> 
> >> This is likely because the dbus upstart job has a post-start that
> >sends
> >> USR1 to pid 1, which is supposed to tell it to re-connect to dbus.
> >> 
> >> I believe the bug is because the USR1 handler needs to ignore
> requests
> >> to re-connect to dbus from chrooted processes, but I haven't gotten
> >very
> >> deep in to debugging it yet.
> >> 
> >Hi Clint,
> >
> >Thanks for highlighting this. It actually looks like a namespace leak
> >that is causing the issue - I'm investigating now...
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >James.
> >- --
> >James Hunt
> >____________________________________
> >Ubuntu Foundations Team, Canonical.
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
> >Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> >
> >iEYEARECAAYFAk2jGgcACgkQYBWEaHcQG9f6lQCfZwD+qOMnyUle0HCPZ9vtv6KO
> >FHIAn1MdOsF/FLhToR0qWadRrBoYeviF
> >=cSt6
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 3
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:15:41 -0500
> >From: Dustin Kirkland <kirkland at ubuntu.com>
> >To: Thierry Carrez <ttx at ubuntu.com>
> >Cc: ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS
> >Message-ID: <BANLkTimXBbm=r3mv+ikftMRv7CmYUyG_ZA at mail.gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> >On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 2:11 AM, Thierry Carrez <ttx at ubuntu.com>
> wrote:
> >> Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >>> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 4:32 PM, James Troup
> ><james.troup at canonical.com> wrote:
> >>>> I appreciate the frustration people have with gobby and I'd be
> happy
> >to
> >>>> run something better if that's what you guys want to do - the
> only
> >thing
> >>>> I'd ask is that someone package Etherpad first[1].
> >>>
> >>> I started with some source packages for Etherpad 1.1 I found here:
> >>> ?* http://apt.etherpad.org/dists/all/source/
> >>>
> >>> I made a few minor modifications:
> >>> ?1) used openjdk instead of sun java
> >>> ?2) ported the most important subset of the (broken) init script
> to
> >(a
> >>> working) upstart configuration
> >>> ?3) updated debian/control and debian/rules accordingly
> >>
> >> Having discussed that issue with him in the past, I think James
> >doesn't
> >> just want "binary packages", he wants "packages fully built from
> >source
> >> that could end up in the main archive".
> >>
> >> The "source" packages at etherpad.org use prebuilt binary blobs in
> >> traditional Java fashion (see under etherpad/lib). Packaging them
> in a
> >> Debian policy compliant way is a bit more work, like JamesPage can
> >tell
> >> from repackaging Hudson :) So the reason why this wasn't done yet
> is
> >> because it's non-trivial and time-consuming, not because of
> laziness.
> >
> >Right ;-) I'll get with James Page on that, and respond to his note
> >separately.
> >
> >>> Perhaps Jorge/Daniel could get an instance running in a beefy
> Amazon
> >>> EC2 instance (m2.4xlarge with 64GB of memory?) and drum up an
> >>> Etherpad-testing-day ASAP with your requisite 100+ concurrent
> >>> sessions. ?I suspect some configuration tweaks will be necessary,
> >>> which should perhaps be folded back into the packaging itself.
> >>
> >> FWIW the OpenStack design summit will use Etherpad with ~400
> >attendees,
> >> I'll let you know if it breaks :)
> >
> >Cool :-)
> >
> >Using the package built from binary blobs?
> >
> >Also, can you share with us the size (CPU, Memory) of the backing
> >server, presumably in the Rackspace Cloud?
> >
> >-- 
> >:-Dustin
> >
> >Dustin Kirkland
> >Ubuntu Core Developer
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 4
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 10:28:15 -0500
> >From: Dustin Kirkland <kirkland at ubuntu.com>
> >To: James Page <james.page at canonical.com>, Elliot Murphy
> > <elliot at canonical.com>
> >Cc: James Troup <James.Troup at canonical.com>,
> > ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS
> >Message-ID: <BANLkTinYnYJFGmK9dJAxH91STu+HjoMz4Q at mail.gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> >On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 12:50 PM, James Page
> <james.page at canonical.com>
> >wrote:
> >> On Fri, 2011-04-08 at 16:39 -0500, Dustin Kirkland wrote:
> >>> It suffers from most the usual ailments endemic to large Java
> >packages
> >>> in Debian/Ubuntu. ?The debconf could use a little bit of
> love. ?And
> >>> obviously the change from sunjdk -> openjdk needs a bit of
> testing.
> >?I
> >>> can do a complete review of the packaging as an Archive Admin and
> >>> publish my notes, if we want to consider it for inclusion in
> Universe
> >>> for Oneiric, but I haven't done so thus far.
> >>
> >> Hi Dustin
> >>
> >> I started to take a look at the bundled Java dependencies last
> week;
> >it
> >> looked like all but 3 of them could be fulfilled through existing
> Java
> >> libraries in the archive.
> >>
> >> Happy to integrate this into the packaging - do you have a branch I
> >can
> >> work against?
> >
> >Sorry, I did not use a branch for this first cut, however, that is a
> >good idea.
> >
> >You can grab my source with:
> > $ dget
> >https://launchpad.net/~etherpad/+archive/ppa/+files/etherpad_1.1-0ubuntu
> >1%7Eppa3.dsc
> >
> >And debdiff that against:
> > $ dget http://apt.etherpad.org/dists/all/source/etherpad_1.1.dsc
> >
> >I have made you an administrator of the ~etherpad team in Launchpad,
> >such that you can upload iterations of the etherpad packaging to the
> >ppa:etherpad/ppa. Feel free to add any other teams or individuals who
> >wants to help with this work. (Volunteers?)
> >
> >Looks like Elliot Murphy owns the etherpad project in Launchpad -- we
> >should probably hook up this team/project together. Elliot -- I also
> >added you as an administrator of team ~etherpad. Perhaps you can
> >transfer ownership of project etherpad to team ~etherpad?
> >
> >>> James, is this a reasonable starting point? ?And is there anyone
> out
> >>> there on ubuntu-devel@ who feels strongly enough about
> Etherpad/Gobby
> >>> to pick up this packaging/testing and take it from here?
> >>
> >> I would be up for this; the upstream build process is completely
> >> non-standard but we should be able to work it into something more
> >> maintainable.
> >
> >You rock ;-)
> >
> >-- 
> >:-Dustin
> >
> >Dustin Kirkland
> >Ubuntu Core Developer
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 5
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 13:19:21 -0500
> >From: Dustin Kirkland <kirkland at ubuntu.com>
> >To: Ubuntu Developers <ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com>
> >Subject: Patch Pilot Report 2011-04-11
> >Message-ID: <BANLkTi=GomHYkGCdnQLCTOjcVMmmoRponw at mail.gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> >As today is Beta2 freeze, I spent most of my time on:
> > * https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-11.04-beta-2
> >triaging bugs there, and looking for anything to sponsor/fix.
> >
> > * 742857
> > * non-translated help documentation tweaks, reviewed, committed,
> >uploaded
> > * 678421
> > * reviewed code back and forth with developer in IRC
> > * needs-fixing, gave him a cleaner/simpler function to use
> > * will revisit when he updates merge proposal
> > * 717166
> > * eucalyptus task invalid, but looks like there is a fix required
> >against isc-dhcp
> > * turns out this was fixed elsewhere, in another bug not linked to
> >this one
> > * 747090
> > * updated triage correctly
> > * 732759
> > * FFe was granted on 3/15
> > * Checked with developer, this was already uploaded and in Natty,
> >bug just wasn't closed
> > * Marked fix-released
> > * 716689
> > * Researched and confirmed fix has already landed in Natty
> > * Marked fix-released
> > * 610597
> > * eCryptfs related bug, talked to assigned dev (jjohansen)
> > * was milestoned against b2, but not practical to fix in that
> >timeframe, so updated milestone to ubuntu-later
> > * 726572
> > * added cloud-initramfs-tools to uec seed
> > * processed MIR archive promotion
> > * 751807, 752910
> > * likewise bug fixes
> > * comment added to 751807, as he's using /etc/init.d/* in a
> >postinst, which is not recommended, but is consistent with ~30 other
> >calls in the package's maintainer scripts; I directed the patch
> >author to the Debian Policy Manual section 9.3.3:
> > * http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-opersys.html
> > * otherwise, approved and uploaded
> > * 757540
> > * handled at ScottK's request
> > * was kind of a pain, as the developer submitted a tarball of their
> >debian packaging directory, rather than a debdiff or a merge proposal
> > * also, I had to grab the upstream release tarball, extract it,
> >rename the contained directory, and repack it
> > * imported dsc to bzr packaging branch and uploaded
> >
> >-- 
> >:-Dustin
> >
> >Dustin Kirkland
> >Ubuntu Core Developer
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 6
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 14:34:49 -0400
> >From: Elliot Murphy <elliot at canonical.com>
> >To: Dustin Kirkland <kirkland at ubuntu.com>
> >Cc: James Page <james.page at canonical.com>, James Troup
> > <James.Troup at canonical.com>, ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: Re: Using something better than Gobby for session notes at
> > UDS
> >Message-ID: <BANLkTimg_f9XuMHks+JiUvTNtL=hmTKKig at mail.gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:28 AM, Dustin Kirkland
> <kirkland at ubuntu.com>
> >wrote:
> >> Looks like Elliot Murphy owns the etherpad project in Launchpad --
> we
> >> should probably hook up this team/project together. ?Elliot -- I
> also
> >> added you as an administrator of team ~etherpad. ?Perhaps you can
> >> transfer ownership of project etherpad to team ~etherpad?
> >
> >Yep, I just happened to be the one who registered a Launchpad code
> >import of etherpad back when it was released as open source, the
> >Launchpad project is only used for that purpose AFAIK. I've just
> >changed the administrator/owner of the project to be team ~etherpad.
> >-- 
> >Elliot Murphy | https://launchpad.net/~statik/
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 7
> >Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:46:25 -0700
> >From: Scott Ritchie <scott at open-vote.org>
> >To: Martin Owens <doctormo at gmail.com>
> >Cc: ubuntu-desktop at lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: Re: Default Desktop Experience for 11.04
> >Message-ID: <4DA384C1.5050404 at open-vote.org>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> >On 04/11/2011 06:26 AM, Martin Owens wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2011-04-11 at 04:22 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> >>> I think it's the height of arrogance for us to tell a user that
> we're
> >>> going to deliberately break his application because it wasn't
> updated
> >>> to
> >>> use our new indicator library.
> >>
> >> We tell users all the time that we've broken their windows
> application
> >> by not implementing any windows apis. No guarantees.
> >>
> >
> >The difference here is their application worked on a previous version
> of
> >Ubuntu. Regressions for current users are worse than other kinds of
> >problems.
> >
> >> So, do we guarantee completely that gnome 2.x apps will function in
> >> Unity? If we do, then we should support the entire API (somehow),
> >> otherwise we be honest and say we support a major subset which may
> >mean
> >> your app won't work completely.
> >>
> >> It can hardly be arrogance so long as we're honest about what we
> >> support.
> >>
> >> Martin Owens
> >>
> >
> >There's a difference between supporting something and not
> intentionally
> >breaking it.
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 8
> >Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 01:01:16 -0500
> >From: Kate Stewart <kate.stewart at canonical.com>
> >To: ubuntu-release at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Cc: ubuntu-qa at lists.ubuntu.com, ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Subject: 11.10 Ubuntu Release - Call for Topics
> >Message-ID: <1302588076.1985.1007.camel at veni>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> >Hi all,
> >
> > As we go into the last phases of releasing Natty, please keep a set
> >of side notes on things you would like to see improved in our release
> >processes for Oneiric (and beyond).
> >
> > We will have a release feedback session again, early in UDS, to go
> >over what worked well, and what can be improved for Oneiric. 
> >However there may be some topics that are wider in scope than that
> >one feedback session. 
> >
> >Looking at what some of the other teams are doing, a revised version
> of
> >their process should work: 
> >
> >1. Send a call for topics the Ubuntu community (this is it)
> >
> >2. Have an exchange over irc and email to discuss the requirements in
> >depth
> >
> >3. Produce a resulting UDS plan which summarizes the topics going
> >into UDS, and feeds into blueprints
> >
> >4. Provide a final roadmap post-UDS
> >
> >
> >Here is the schedule with some details.
> >
> >= April 12th: Request for Topics =
> >This email is the request for topics. Please send topics that you
> would
> >like the Ubuntu Release team to consider for this cycle to the
> >**ubuntu-release** mailing list [1] with
> >"[Oneiric-Release-Topic]" in the subject line. 
> >
> >These are not specific requirements, but high-level ideas or
> concepts.
> >
> >Some areas to consider:
> > * Development Release Processes (freezes, testing, etc.)
> > * Stable Release Updates (proposed, updates, testing, etc.)
> > * Long Term Support Release Processes (testing, freezes, etc.)
> > * Inter team dependencies ( Toolchain freeze, etc. ;) )
> > * End of Life Processes (advance notice, transitions )
> > * Release support infrastructure (archive, builders, etc.)
> >
> >= April 12th through April 19th - Requirements discussions held =
> >We will discuss topics in the ubuntu-release irc channel and
> >ubuntu-release mailing list. The goal will be to identify and
> >document specific requirements.
> >
> >= April 19th through April 28th - Getty Natty out! =
> >
> >= May 2nd - UDS Oneiric Topics Review =
> >A couple of days before UDS Oneiric we will present a plan. This is
> >essentially a review of what topics we have planned for further
> >discussion at UDS.
> >
> >= May 9th through May 13th - UDS =
> >
> >= Approximately two weeks post UDS - Oneiric Plan Review =
> >About two weeks after UDS, we will revise the UDS Oneiric Plan to
> >capture what was actually decided as the plan of record at UDS, and
> >present that information. This info will feed into the Ubuntu Release
> >planning for Oneiric and beyond
> >
> >Thanks,
> >-Kate
> >
> >[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-release
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >-- 
> >ubuntu-devel mailing list
> >ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
> >https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
> >
> >
> >End of ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 80, Issue 20
> >********************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >-- 
> >ubuntu-devel mailing list
> >ubuntu-devel at lists.ubuntu.com
> >Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
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> >
> >
> >End of ubuntu-devel Digest, Vol 81, Issue 7
> >*******************************************
> >
> 
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"Who cares if it doesn't do anything?  It was made with our new
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