Bug workflow - a wider view

[Ian Jackson]

Matt Zimmerman writes ("Re: Bug workflow - a wider view"):
> What, exactly, do you see as the difference between a user submitting a bug
> to Debian using their email client, and using Launchpad?  The resulting bug
> will be essentially identical, except for linking the bugs to each other
> (does debbugs have Launchpad bug watches?).

The user interface used to compose a message can often strongly affect
its contents.  I agree that in principle it would be possible to
construct via the LP web UI (which is what most LP users use for bug
filing) a report which when forwarded by LP to debbugs would look just
like the email the same user would have sent.

However, in practice the user is unlikely to write the web form bug
report in this way, because the web UI presents different hints and
context for the user.  (And also because writing a web form bug report
in this way is IMO quite hard work and because the `in principle'
assumption above depends on LP's email handling being made more
standard and on other detailed aspects of LP behaviour which
experience suggests will not be quite right at the initial rollout.)

The `in principle' statement above also assumes that LP will ask the
user to write a a new bug report text for forwarding to Debian, which
is not what I understand from the current proposal.  AIUI the idea at
the moment is that the plan is to use the existing LP bug head text as
the meat of the mail to debbugs.  LP bug reports against Ubuntu tend
to be in a different form, contain different information, and be
written as if addressed to a different audience, when compared with
corresponding bug reports in the Debian BTS.

Additionally, web interfaces attract different users to email
interfaces.  Regardless of the claims of partisans on both sides,
Debian and Ubuntu have a different shape to their target audience and
this is reflected in the bug systems and in the social mores.
Transplanting LP's users en-masse into debbugs is likely to lead to
arguments.

It is important to note that Debian's BTS doesn't lack a web bug
submission UI because of a lack of effort; it's a deliberate decision
(at least insofar as anything not formally decided by Debian is a
decision).  Suggestions for adding a web submission UI to debbugs come
up occasionally and are generally controversial.

This proposed Launchpad feature would amount to bypassing that
decision (or lack of it).

Now you can argue with all of the above, obviously.  It's quite
legitimate for people to have different views.  I don't think that I'm
going to persuade you, mdz, with the arguments above.

But that's not what's important.  What is important is what _people in
Debian_ are likely to think, and I predict that significant numbers
will make arguments like those I present above.  The proper people to
decide on the merits of these arguments are Debian - and the proper
venue for the discussion is Debian.

It's all very well for Ubuntu people to say "this is just the same"
but if Debian say "we think it is different" then that's a violation
of what Debian think are Debian's norms with regards to Debian's bug
system, and thus highly inappropriate.

Even if you disagree with all of the above: Ubuntu's objective here is
not to be right, but to have a productive and constructive
relationship with Debian.  No matter how right we feel we are, to
achieve that goal we must honour Debian's views even when we disagree
with them.

Where, in a case like this, opposition can be expected, prudence says
that we should tread carefully by discussing the matter in advance and
by not doing anything without Debian's consent.

Ian.