Collaboration with Debian: a balanced proposal.

Lucas Nussbaum lucas at
Sat Jan 21 19:30:46 GMT 2006

On 21/01/06 at 13:32 +0100, Stephan Hermann wrote:
> Hi Lucas,
> On Saturday 21 January 2006 00:29, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
> > On 19/01/06 at 18:50 -0200, Gustavo Franco wrote:
> > > As a MOTU hopeful and Debian Developer, i'm glad you're interested
> > > on this subject too. I think your proposal would work with minor
> > > enhancements. I'll split my comments in two sections, Ubuntu
> > > Developers and MOTUs:
> > >
> > > * MOTUs - I believe that a MOTUDct, mainly with Debian Developers
> > > involved and interested in organize Ubuntu universe and contribute
> > > back to Debian the changes, would work. It isn't only about merge
> > > packages but report bugs too. I think it's just a matter of
> > > receive a ok from CC or just ogra and dholbach (?!), document it
> > > on the wiki and ask for volunteers in utnubu.
> >
> > I didn't see DCT as a sub-team of MOTU, because DCT would probably
> > handle main packages too. I don't think it's needed either : we need
> > to keep it simple so a Debian developer understand how things work
> > at the first glance. Reading the debian-devel thread, it seems that
> > several DDs already have problems understanding the way MOTUs
> > "maintain" packages in universe, and not adding to this complexity
> > would be great.
> Reading the updated version of
> there is no need for the
> main part.
> Quote: "When a bug is reported in the Debian bug tracking system and
> then later fixed in Ubuntu, the fixes are communicated back directly
> to the Debian developers responsible for that package in Debian and
> record the patch URL in the debian bug system. The long term goal of
> that work is to ensure that patches made by the full-time Ubuntu team
> members are immediately also included in debian packages where the
> debian maintainer likes the work."
> I think that covers most of "main".

This applies to bug reported first in the Debian BTS, and then fixed in
Ubuntu. For those bugs, the patches are sent to the BTS. But the quote
says nothing about bugs first reported in Malone, for example.

I know that the situation is much better for main than for universe.
However :
- some main packages are maintained like universe packages, with very
  few changes.
- DDs have a problem understanding the difference between main and
  universe. While it is easy to understand from the inside, it is more
difficult from the outside. I therefore prefer not to base my proposal
on a different cases for main and universe.

> > > * Ubuntu Developers - It seems to be the core of the problems
> > > coming from that debian-devel threads. It would be better to hear
> > > the feedback from Canonical on this first, but i'll take the risk
> > > and suggest that they hire a person to work with MOTUDct, doing
> > > the same thing but just for main related issues. It's clear that a
> > > volunteer (or more) in MOTUDct could do the same, but it's all
> > > about "we're contributing back to Debian" thing.
> >
> > Of course, it would be an excellent way of showing that Canonical
> > cares about Debian. Maybe an employee could be asked to work on DCT
> > coordination as a part of his job ? Anyway, we don't really need
> > this for now. What we need is more feedback from ubuntu-devel@
> > before I can forward the proposal to other lists (read: Debian's)
> > and get more heated feedback ;)
> The right way to get an agreement on this, is to forward all those
> things towards the TB, and to have a vote on that.

My goal is not to seek approval by the TB, but to improve the proposal
here, and then go to other mailing lists, like Utnubu, to discuss it.

I've put the proposal on the Wiki. see
| Lucas Nussbaum
| lucas at |
| jabber: lucas at             GPG: 1024D/023B3F4F |

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