FeatureSpecification: apt-third-party

[Jerry Haltom]

It doesn't solve copying random files from a CD to a system... and I
don't think it should. This is probably more appropriately solved using
a postinst debconf question. id provides a .apt file, apt file installs
some .debs which ask questions about the location of the data files, and
copies them to /var on install and removes them on uninstall.

On Wed, 2006-04-05 at 13:21 +0200, Xavier Claessens wrote:
> Le mardi 04 avril 2006 à 10:16 -0500, Jerry Haltom a écrit :
> > Cool. Thanks for the reply. This is exactly the argument I wanted to
> > zone in on.
> > 
> > Let me first lay out some guiding opinion on Ubuntu and the FOSS world
> > as I see it, because it will explain why I disagree with you. First and
> > foremost, what is our goal? I suspect mine might be different from some
> > people, or at least thought out differently. Mine is to see Ubuntu
> > succeed on the desktop and bring the benefits of free software to
> > people. That is, at offices, and at peoples homes. I don't think
> > supporting non-Free software is morally bad. In fact, I think it's a
> > great way to piggy back free software in on. I think VMware is a great
> > program. I don't mind the gstreamer-mp3 thing, for those who want it. I
> > think that giving somebody a free platform, and then allowing other
> > people to write their own software for it, whether proprietary or closed
> > is "morally right." It's our job to promote free software, not mandate
> > it. Additionally, I think the more software we have, free other
> > otherwise, the more people will use Ubuntu, and the more exposure they
> > will have to free software, and the tools to write it. Perhaps they'll
> > become developers and start duplicating the closed tools they're tired
> > of using.
> > 
> > Simple, the more people distributing useful software for Ubuntu, the
> > better.
> > 
> > Now on to your argument. You prefer to keep a centrally managed list of
> > preferred packages controlled by Ubuntu. I assume then that you
> > understand that for software to be properly distributed for Ubuntu it
> > must undergo a vetting process by some representative of Ubuntu. It must
> > be approved and then added to our list of approved software. Somebody
> > must maintain this list and add updates to each program to it.
> > 
> > I suspect this approach originates because there are a few well known
> > pieces of software which people desire, but which is undistributed by
> > Ubuntu as it stands. This recognized set of software is small and
> > controllable.
> > 
> > My proposal goes beyond that. I desire to create a more friendly
> > software ecosystem, where by a third party doesn't have to "run the
> > gauntlet" to have their software distributed by Ubuntu. I want to
> > welcome new software, that us on this mailing list may not even be aware
> > of, with open arms. I want to provide the tools to these innovators,
> > whomever they may be, to have users easily install software onto their
> > systems, with the proper warnings and security explanations, and all the
> > safeguards possible: BEFORE THEY DO IT THEMSELVES!
> > 
> > That last point is important. There are companies out there Right Now
> > which are distributing software for Ubuntu which Ubuntu has no control
> > over, which threaten Ubuntu users. VMware is one. They distribute their
> > installer as a custom shell script. It compiles kernel modules and
> > places them in /lib/modules. It runs processes as root and installs
> > initscripts. And it doesn't use dpkg. A user of VMware has to use a
> > separate tool-set to manage his VMware installation. He can't use
> > familiar tools, like synaptic, to see it installed. He can't track
> > updates for it from update-notifier. And we can't do anything about it.
> > Repeat the same situation with Sun's Java and all the other commercial
> > Linux programs nobody pays attention to. Each one has it's own install
> > tool.
> > 
> > Additionally, these vendors are not going to stop distributing their
> > proprietary installers just because Ubuntu has a separate way to do it
> > built in. A user is going to go to www.vmware.com to buy VMware. They're
> > going to download what VMware offers and run it as VMware tells them to.
> > They aren't going to check Ubuntu first to see if the software already
> > exists in our approved list.
> > 
> > I would much rather see us push and promote a proper method for these
> > parties to install software on our system. Something which is easy for
> > them to set up, and which is based on a community understanding.
> > 
> > I want ISVs to say "We support Ubuntu. Click here to install our
> > product."
> > 
> > 
> > end.
> 
> I 100% agree. But we can do more ! By example all games (like doom3) are
> distributed for linux in .run files. We can make it easier to install
> doom3 from a .deb (or .apt) file but there is some remaining problems:
> How to install data from CDs in a user-friendly way ? We should have
> some windows-like installers that is able to give a GtkFileChooser to
> the user to let him say where is the datas, etc... without loosing the
> adventage of .deb files that is easily updated by update-manager ! Maybe
> it can be achieved by improvements of debconf's GTK/GNOME frontend...
> 
> I really want an user-friendly and ubuntu-spirit way to install games
> like doom3, quake4, unrealtournament2003/2004. Those games can't be
> distributed legally by ubuntu but we should propose to id-software (and
> others games vendors) a system to install their software on ubuntu.
> 
> does apt-third-party solves this problem ?
> 
> Xavier Claessens.