Jave (Re: Since ubuntu is pushing python, a good python IDE should be available)

[Fábio Mendes]

[...]
> > Does this mean there can be relaxations for this policy if Sun allows
> > Ubuntu to ship java?
> 
> The two issues are independent:
> 
> - Our ability to redistribute software (at all) is governed by the license
>   terms provided by the copyright holder.
> 
> - The criteria which determine the categorization of software within Ubuntu
>   are documented in our license policy:

So even if we came in agreement with sun that ubuntu can redistribute
java it won't go into main (neither DesktopSeed). The licencing don't
necessaryly apply for packages in universe, so we could put java there
couldn't we? I'm all for using free software alternatives, but when it
comes to java VM, all free implementations hava a big disclaimer: "This
is BETA quality! Don't expect to compile arbitrary code, don't expect
all Java libraries, use this for educational purpouses only!". We can't
rely on those yet, they may even be good in to the developer, if the
needed libraries are already implemented, but for the end user, having a
free VM is asking for __trouble__.

If it's true indeed that IBM allows gentoo distribute java, I don't see
any compelling reason they won't let ubuntu do that too. In fact I see
much complaints in FOSS comunitty how sun/ibm are so mean in not letting
distros distribute the java VM, but the only solution people expect is
that they release their VM under a free licence, which seems very
unlikely to me. If we expect them to make a compromise, they'll expect
us doing too, that's negotiation. So maybe (I hope so) unbuntu, as a
comunity, is willing to negotiate with them and eventually put a working
jre/sdk package into universe as it's a great usability plus to the end
user (which may not be able to install java by himself). This will, of
course, require an explicit approval from the Canonical staff, and
that's why I'm trying to get an explicit answer here: 

1) Is there any interest in shipping a proprietary JM package in
universe? I ask to both Canonnical and Ubuntu community as a whole.
Assuming so, the following questions must be answerd:

2) Since the licencing terms are often too restrictive, is there any
interest into negotiating with sun and/or ibm to relax those terms under
some conditions (to be specified later with them) that our distribution
methods won't facilitate IP abuse?

3) How far are we willing to go to protect the packaged software from
abuse? Changing our package system, is not likely to be an option, but
requiring the user to accept the EULA during installation seems to be a
reasonable (not ideal) condition.

4) Is ubuntu and Canonnical willing to maintain or let someone or a team
volunteer to maintain a proprietary java package with probably have
special clauses added to it that won't let us bux fix or make arbitrary
changes in the distributed files?

5) Although the Ubuntu comunity can help to solving this issue, there is
a need of a official representation from Canonical. It's likely that
Canonical representative will talk to ibm/sun, stat the comunity
position, etc. Is there someone in Canonnical willing to take this role?

I hope I didn't forgot nothing too important :-)
Thanks,
Fabio