Future and impact of ongoing projects in Linux world

[Xen]

Ralf Mardorf schreef op 05-10-2016 17:02:
> o

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>> On 05 Oct 2016, at 16:23, Xen <list at xenhideout.nl> wrote:

> Errors? Hopefully warnings, such as the GTK GUI crap. When launching a
> GUI by CLI I sometimes add 2>/dev/null ;).

KScreen. Lots of it.


> 
>> Of course there are probably "session" services but I have no clue how 
>> it works and 99% of users that have spent less than 5 years on Linux 
>> probably don't know how to do it either.
> 
> This is related to the advantage and the disadvantage of Linux user
> space. The best approach for those who are clueless and don't want to
> learn, is a fruit based OS. However, Ubuntu already is the best Linux
> distro for this target group.

Like a Raspberry :).

You basically keep saying that there is no need to improve things, but 
you are taking this from a reactionary approach, not a creative one.

You are that person that says "Oh please, not again" or "Does that party 
need to take place in my house???".

>> In Windows

Yes you conveniently break off my statement but (I had to look for it) 
it was about something that has *nothing* to do with security as it 
dealth with network shares.

> ...nothing is secure at all. Users are free to chose Windows. Linux is
> for another kind of computer user.

Yes, the one that needs no user-friendliness.

Completely not to the point here. You can enable that same functionality 
in Linux and none would be the worse for it.

> A user could chose what ever OS
> fits best to the individual needs and moneybag. Apropos standards, if
> Ubuntu would follow Richard Stallman's ideas, it would be les to your
> needs, IOW there is no standard able to please everybody.

You would first need to argue why *anyone* would need to follow 
Stallman's ideas, and then, why I would need or want to.

I think it is quite irrelevant. You might just as well cite someone that 
wants to blow up the whole world (such as me) and then claim that the 
field of opinions is too diverse to make sense of it.

Disregard that which is irrevant. Pick only ideas that further the goals 
of a usable system. Everything else is beside the point.

(In other words you are only throwing up excuses).

So refuted, here.

>> So it is not really about system disks for the most part, there is no 
>> real great issue with having a user having to use sudo or gksudo or 
>> the like. Because to this day system maintenance really has to be done 
>> from the shell anyway.
> 
> For good reasons not all users get root privileges ;). Keep in mind
> that Linux not necessarily is a single user desktop environment.

I just said root privileges were not required for the majority of use 
cases.

That you just said were unwarranted on a Linux system.

But they can be achieved easily anyway if people want to. The system 
stands not in the way of the solution (only you do, in that sense ;-)).

It is only unwilling people that create unrealized solutions.


>> However on Windows every user... you know.
> 
> Why don' t you use Windows instead of Linux? Both operating systems
> follow a different approach.

Because both operating systems follow a different approach.


>> Graphical systems change and are often independable, so we need 
>> systems that will always be there and remain unsullied by anything 
>> being done in Gnome or KDE or Unity. It is no good if GUIs create 
>> their own systems: they should just interface with systems that 
>> already exist and that you can also access through the command line or 
>> console.
> 
> I'm not using a DE, that doesn't mean that changes of Qt or GTK wot
> cause issues for me, but At least I don't suffer from DE related
> issues. Windows and Apple don't give you a choice at all.

Yes and my neighbour doesn't use a computer so doesn't suffer any of 
that at all. Great solution to every problem: just don't use it.


> I skipped all that systemd related stuff, since it's a little bit to
> late to complain about systemd.

When people were planning the war, disconcert was avoided by saying that 
people needed to be focused and not take away from efforts to solve the 
problem.

When the war had started, disconcert was condemned by saying that people 
needed to be patriotic and support the troops.

> You want standards and if there is
> one, you dislike it.

I never said I wanted standards. I would almost every day prefer a 
system lacking certain functionality rather than a system with 
functionality I have to work my ass off to avoid. But this is a relative 
notion, obviously you cannot choose everything.

I am not happy at all with advances I need to spend time and effort on 
on how to learn to revert.

Every step I make, someone else takes me a step back. Or a step and a 
half. Then I have to spend time learning that system before I can 
advance again.

> We already had the systemd discussions before it
> was introduced. Note, I'm not a systemd fan, but now we have to become
> used to it. I also din't read the snap related part. We don't need to
> use snaps, neither on Ubuntu, let alone other distros.

You still haven't mentioned or revealed to me what you are arguing 
against, that I asked for. Are you just going to block every proposal 
for change, no matter what it is?